NSW U16 Trial Games and Selections 2011

[Man on the hill]

He's the Junior School Sportsmaster at Trinity and has coached Norths Colts 1.

Think he coached SJRU U15 last year as well.

 

[Wallaby Bob]

Food for thought, 8 of the selections either play in the 2nd or 3rd division Sunday village club competition, so is SJRU telling us that they could'nt find 8 players more talented or worthy in the first division comp. As i can rattle off at least 7 without to much problem: Wolfgramm, Winterstein, Angeloni, Taiki, Taufu, Korac, Ulu and the list goes on. I'm not for a minute saying that those selected are not talented, but would of thought those boys playing in the hardest division week in and week out would also be a bit more battle hardened.

Good point RT. That comment also applies when selecting a NSW team. Unfortunately some great Country kids are out of sight and out of mind. It is also interesting that out of the 56 kids in the NSW ARU Gold Squad that 32 of them did not make either NSW Schools, Sydney or Country. Who do you think has got the selection process correct?

 

[Dingdong]

Why do we go through the "selections" if it always ends up a GPS team? I saw plenty of other talented players at the Schools Champs.
Why has QLD won the last FIVE open championships? Do you think NSW need to start changing selection criteria for under 16s so we see winning outcomes in the OPENs?

Wallaby Bob,please name me one "talented player" who you saw at the schools champs who is not in 1 of the 3 NSW teams. I can think of only 2, Elliot Jennings and Colby Hawkins. Keeping in mind that Trent Winterstein didn't play at the Schools Champs. Every one of those GPS boys were selected in to the NSW Schools team on their individual performance at the championships. Now, I can name more than a few boys from GPS schools who didn't make the GPS team or were unavailable that would have been a lot closer to being selected than a hell of a lot of boys I seen at the Schools Champs. In fact 1 would have been a dead set cert.

How do you suggest "NSW change their selection criteria" ? Maybe they could use a panel of Clairvoyant's to select the team or possibly just select the 12 biggest forwrds and 11 fastest backs. From what I saw at the Schools championships, I reckon they were pretty darn close. The fact the NSW teams have absolutely dominated the National 16's Championships would suggest we're not doing a lot wrong in this age group. What goes wrong after that is debate for another thread.

 

[Malcsy]

There will always be disagreements over this player should have been, this player shouldn't etc etc etc, and often it is forgotten that, at this level, there is often a very fine line between those boys who make the team and those that don't, and that they are still kids... Regardless of the outcome, good, or not so, for each poster's favourites, the selectors have chosen, and frankly their's is the only opinion that counts. And it's worth remembering that, at the end of the day, 46 talented players have been chosen for the next level, so good luck to them all.

 

[Dingdong]

There will always be disagreements over this player should have been, this player shouldn't etc etc etc, and often it is forgotten that, at this level, there is often a very fine line between those boys who make the team and those that don't, and that they are still kids... Regardless of the outcome, good, or not so, for each poster's favourites, the selectors have chosen, and frankly their's is the only opinion that counts. And it's worth remembering that, at the end of the day, 46 talented players have been chosen for the next level, so good luck to them all.

69 Malcsy !!

 

[Malcsy]

69 Malcsy !!

Did Country announce today also ? Apologies if so, didn't realise... Unless that's an offer Ding Dong, in which case I hope you haven't accidentally misplaced a K with a D in your username !

 

[CTPE]

Both NSW Schools and Sydney Juniors looking like strong sides, apprently there is 7 Trinity players and 5 Newington in the 2 teams.

Both schools picked up the coaching positions in the Sydney and Schools sides respectively as well.

 

[Rugby Tragic]

Did Country announce today also ? Apologies if so, didn't realise... Unless that's an offer Ding Dong, in which case I hope you haven't accidentally misplaced a K with a D in your username !

Malcsy, you really are a funny guy, you want to hope he's not King Kong !

 

[Dingdong]

Did Country announce today also ? Apologies if so, didn't realise... Unless that's an offer Ding Dong, in which case I hope you haven't accidentally misplaced a K with a D in your username !

Could have been a fraudien slip Mousy....... wifes away !!! And lets just say the letters L O prefix my nickname.

 

[Man on the hill]

Does anyone know these squads well enough to put them 1 - 15 (bracketing boys by position if needed to avoid trying to name a starting 15) so we can start looking at some of the head to head match ups?

Counting down to the first game - 82 days to go!

 

[CTPE]

Now, I can name more than a few boys from GPS schools who didn't make the GPS team or were unavailable that would have been a lot closer to being selected than a hell of a lot of boys I seen at the Schools Champs. In fact 1 would have been a dead set cert.

Names Dingdong?

(I'm surprised that Cutler didn't make the Schools team)

 

[Dingdong]

Names Dingdong?

(I'm surprised that Cutler didn't make the Schools team)

Lucas Bateman would have been a cert, Mitchell Short, Jack McCalman, Pat Curtin...... can I stop now?

 

[magpie4ever]

Ok, just arrived home & I have checked the squad lists (Schools, Junior & Country). I intend to have a say on some of the crap posted on this site today, but I will get to them later (reply with quote) but let me say this the CCC squad at schools (who really should have played the beloved GPS side in the final) got 1 player selected across all three squads. WTF, you say. Now, i know a number of these players would not have available of juniors & country due to these boys only playing union at school, but I would guess 70% would have been available for 2 squads.

The question is why? Let me guess, Coach of schools - GPS, number of GPS players selected 14, Coach of juniors - Trinity (CAS, I believe) number of CAS players selected 8, at a guess, can't talk about country.

So what is my point. The system F**KIN* stinks, and probably has for years.

And people say, why do the NZers put us to sleep at any senior level (U20's up) 80-90% of the time? Answer, because the system F**KIN* stinks. :angryfire:

 

[wreckless]

Maggie - not trying to be smart (just FYI!) : Chapman & MacDougall from CCC are in NSW Country squad ( and both went well at Schools and Regionals! ). Maybe others - not 100% sure. Wreckless

 

[Malcsy]

Ok, just arrived home & I have checked the squad lists (Schools, Junior & Country). I intend to have a say on some of the crap posted on this site today, but I will get to them later (reply with quote) but let me say this the CCC squad at schools (who really should have played the beloved GPS side in the final) got 1 player selected across all three squads. WTF, you say. Now, i know a number of these players would not have available of juniors & country due to these boys only playing union at school, but I would guess 70% would have been available for 2 squads.

The question is why? Let me guess, Coach of schools - GPS, number of GPS players selected 14, Coach of juniors - Trinity (CAS, I believe) number of CAS players selected 8, at a guess, can't talk about country.

So what is my point. The system F**KIN* stinks, and probably has for years.

And people say, why do the NZers put us to sleep at any senior level (U20's up) 80-90% of the time? Answer, because the system F**KIN* stinks. :angryfire:

Without wishing to be drawn into this debate, as I make it, 11 CAS players (not all rep). Maybe they decided between them to have the duke out that CCC denied them !

At this point I shall withdraw back into my vision of peace and love to the world... !

 

[Man on the hill]

Newbie - so I observe human nature. Ultimately, the solution lies with independent selectors / coaches being introduced earlier on in the food chain - ie at zone level as a minimum. The number of "curious" selection / game descisions outlined throughout this thread says that this what the majority believe. That I have a provocative style - well so what.

This is in response to magpie @ #1053

Yes the system needs a major overhaul & yes coaches might come from particular systems (particularly schools), but it is ultimately the selectors that we need to take to task the most.

The unfortunate truth is that none of the unions have deep enough pockets to pay coaches so the coaches need to have “understanding” jobs; schools like to have rep coaches in their rugby programs and they “understand” – providing facilities and time off with no impact to the coach’s hip pocket.

 

[magpie4ever]

The Presidents (GPS) U16s were easily the best team at the Schools Champs despite the fact that the team was only selected the Monday before the Champs weekend and had only two training runs together whilst some of the other sides had longer preparations. I could open a real can of worms here - but is this reflective of the players' abilities? (ie is GPS a much stronger competition?) or their coaches ability? (ie to get a team playing great team rugby on a very limited preparation).

That said no doubt some very good players in other teams suffered as a consequence of their teams overall performances (eg CAS, ACIES) whilst equally a couple of players probably benefitted selection wise because of their teams very good performances.

If you go back to the very first post on this thread you'll see that the thread commenced because of a then ARU determination that there would no longer be NSW Schools, Sydney and Country teams at the U16 Nationals but rather NSW U16 I and II sides. The ARU ultimately relented because each of the NSWSRU, SJRU and NSW Country JRU indicated that they would not involve themselves in the selection process for the NSW I and II teams. Perhaps the ARU didn't want to become involved in soley determining who would be in the NSW I and II teams and the certain imbroglio that would have followed when these sides were announced.

Every selection process in any junior sport is imperfect. Bias, nepotism, poor judgement, limited opportunity (game time) etc, etc all play a role and it will never ever change. Don't forget also that there were some very good players who didn't even get to play in the Schools Champs or Regionals Carnival due to injury or being overseas etc. Despite these barriers ultimately it depends how much the young player wants it -there are plenty of players who have made Schools, Sydney and Country U16's sides in the past who have not progressed further in rep or senior rugby for a variety of reasons.

Phil Gould summed it up well when writing about Darren Lockyer in last Sunday's Herald:

"Sporting champions are the ones who fall in love with their sport at first sight. Champions just work harder, practice longer; they are tougher, more resilient and more focused than the average performers; and they are relentless in pursuing their dreams."

Lord give me strength: let me say this, at a guess these GPS players would have played against each other on a regular basis for a number of years (possibly 4) and if you have ever played football you would know you learn more about a player when you play against him then with him. Picked on Monday & had two training runs, so what, they know each other.

As for CCC, selected from the trials, a two day camp then a trial. This is for players from all over the State who barely knew each other, let alone had game time together. But GPS were so great only coming together a week before, what a load of shite man. Surely, you can't be serious.

 

[magpie4ever]

Maggie - not trying to be smart (just FYI!) : Chapman & MacDougall from CCC are in NSW Country squad ( and both went well at Schools and Regionals! ). Maybe others - not 100% sure. Wreckless

Didn't see Chapman & MacDougall's names on the country website.

 

[magpie4ever]

Wallaby Bob,please name me one "talented player" who you saw at the schools champs who is not in 1 of the 3 NSW teams. I can think of only 2, Elliot Jennings and Colby Hawkins. Keeping in mind that Trent Winterstein didn't play at the Schools Champs. Every one of those GPS boys were selected in to the NSW Schools team on their individual performance at the championships. Now, I can name more than a few boys from GPS schools who didn't make the GPS team or were unavailable that would have been a lot closer to being selected than a hell of a lot of boys I seen at the Schools Champs. In fact 1 would have been a dead set cert.

How do you suggest "NSW change their selection criteria" ? Maybe they could use a panel of Clairvoyant's to select the team or possibly just select the 12 biggest forwrds and 11 fastest backs. From what I saw at the Schools championships, I reckon they were pretty darn close. The fact the NSW teams have absolutely dominated the National 16's Championships would suggest we're not doing a lot wrong in this age group. What goes wrong after that is debate for another thread.

I could name half the CCC squad, a few from AICES, a few from CAS, a few from country.

 

[wreckless]

I could name half the CCC squad, a few from AICES, a few from CAS, a few from country.

Magpie - would love to see these names! I know the deed is done but for the sake of informed discussion.