Melbourne Rebels 2011

[Gnostic]

Suggesting xenophobia is overstating things. There are reasons you might want an Australian captain, particularly from a marketing perspective. The Konze - what was your reasoning?

I agree with your reasons for picking Delve though. A good captain for Gloucester and the only provincial level No. 8 in the squad so a likely starter.

Why jump to negative reasoning like "xenophobia". The Captain and Vice should be Australian for the same reasons we have restrictions on foreign player numbers. We want to use the limited Super Rugby spots to best effect to develop Wallabies eligible players in all aspects of play. So we want an Oz player as Captain and vice and Delve will be an important part of the "leadership group".

For the same reasons we do not want to have non-Australian coaches IMO. There are so many successful Oz coaches overseas these blokes need to be given a shot at Super Rugby and from there the Oz job.

 

[TOCC]

Why jump to negative reasoning like "xenophobia". The Captain and Vice should be Australian for the same reasons we have restrictions on foreign player numbers. We want to use the limited Super Rugby spots to best effect to develop Wallabies eligible players in all aspects of play. So we want an Oz player as Captain and vice and Delve will be an important part of the "leadership group".

For the same reasons we do not want to have non-Australian coaches IMO. There are so many successful Oz coaches overseas these blokes need to be given a shot at Super Rugby and from there the Oz job.

thats clutching at straws, there are obvious implications by restricting the number of foreign positions..

how does making someone like Mortlock or Freir as captain improve Australian rugby??
Daniel Braid was vice-captain at the Reds during 2010, the world didnt fall apart then.. Whats wrong with Robbie Deans coaching the wallabies... best man for the job i say..

btw, Australia is xenophobic....

 

[DPK]

btw, Australia is xenophobic....

I like your attitude. :

 

[Epi]

The parallels to Manchester United are crap, IMO.

As long as you have your reasons.

Super 15 is not international rugby - they are basically franchises (for want of a better word). The captain should be the one who is best qualified to do the job. I'm sure when Gloucester made Delve skipper that the fact that he's not English didn't come into it.

I think that Australian rugby is so protective of the development and success of the Wallabies that it is to the detriment of the sport as a 'world game' and the standard of the sport in this country.

 

[DPK]

Super 15 is not international rugby - they are basically franchises (for want of a better word). The captain should be the one who is best qualified to do the job. I'm sure when Gloucester made Delve skipper that the fact that he's not English didn't come into it.

Yes, but they have more than double the amount of teams than Australia does in their respective competitions. There's plenty of room for the English players.

I'm not ashamed to say that I think the Australian teams should look after Australian players first, foreign players second.

 

[Epi]

It's a good thing the rest of the world doesn't share your view or we'd never get a chance to see the bloke in my avatar playing competitive rugby - among others. I think that'd be sad. May as well watch league...

 

[TOCC]

I like your attitude. :

not going to answer my questions??

 

[DPK]

not going to answer my questions??

Well, seeing as I didn't suggest either of those players as candidates for the captaincy (although they are Australian), I don't think I will answer the first one.

On Deans, well he is a good coach but I think the point that he is the "best man for the job" is debatable. What's wrong with him coaching the Wallabies? Well, not much. Good thing we're talking about players!

As for Braid, it's simple: vice-captain is not the same as captain.

 

[Gnostic]

thats clutching at straws, there are obvious implications by restricting the number of foreign positions..

how does making someone like Mortlock or Freir as captain improve Australian rugby??
Daniel Braid was vice-captain at the Reds during 2010, the world didnt fall apart then.. Whats wrong with Robbie Deans coaching the wallabies... best man for the job i say..

btw, Australia is xenophobic....

Mortlock as Captain to start in the first year to mentor and bring on somebody new.

There are plenty of possibilities but to blame xenophobia is silly. Generalisations like that are foolish, especially given the fact that you can name numerous recent players who have been born overseas and in some cases captained the side. Xenophobia would preclude that.

The reasons I gave to use the positions available to develop talent pool of players eligible to play for Oz are valid.

 

[wamberal]

The position of captain is very important from a marketing point of view, not sure whether anybody touched on that. Here we have a ground-breaking event for Australian sport, a professional rugby franchise in Melbourne. Rugby needs to be sold in Melbourne as a typically Australian game, with a long history in Victoria, as well as elsewhere. All the staff, especially the players, and overwhelmingly the coach and captain, have a message to get across to rugby supporters and the wider public. It would be easier and more effective to sell the message if it is delivered in an Australian accent.

 

[stoff]

Although the captain delivering the message in a foreign accent would be a point of difference from the other twelve professional football teams in Melbourne. Just basing this on the membership DVD player profiles, Gareth Delve to me was by far the most impressive guy on there. Having said that, I can't see Mortlock not getting it.

 

[Epi]

Although the captain delivering the message in a foreign accent would be a point of difference from the other twelve professional football teams in Melbourne. Just basing this on the membership DVD player profiles, Gareth Delve to me was by far the most impressive guy on there. Having said that, I can't see Mortlock not getting it.

I agree - Morty will get it - he's down here for his experience more than anything. Whether he'll spend that much time on the park is yet to be seen...

 

[fatprop]

The English papers and fans seem to be praying for Cips to fail.

I hope the guy cuts it up, he is the only pom 10 that has looked dangerous and will play flat in a long long time, maybe ever

 

[Lee Grant]

I wrote after the Wallabies 2008 game against England at Twickenham that Cipriani had the misfortune not to be born in the country he had just played against. His game was made for Oz rugby.

I think he will enjoy the relative openness of Super Rugby and that he will get attention from the England alickadoos. It will be too late for the RWC but his session in Oz may be great for his international career eventually provided he doesn't come to notice too much for off the field stuff.

fatprop is right when he indicates that he likes to play flat, and mix that up with his speed of the mark and ability to play like a centre in open play and you have someone who will thrive in the law crackdown paradigm.

I wish him well.

 

[TOCC]

Mortlock as Captain to start in the first year to mentor and bring on somebody new.

There are plenty of possibilities but to blame xenophobia is silly. Generalisations like that are foolish, especially given the fact that you can name numerous recent players who have been born overseas and in some cases captained the side. Xenophobia would preclude that.

The reasons I gave to use the positions available to develop talent pool of players eligible to play for Oz are valid.

lol, its hardly a generalisation, you see it everday in Australia, dont kid yourself otherwise... from the tyrant boat people invading our shores to the credibility of Australias new cricket player and his musilim beliefs...

there is no good reason as to why a Australian would make a better captain then a foreign player for he Rebels, making Mortlock as captain does nothing to improve depth in australian rugby..

 

[jay-c]

i prefer a captain to be a forward, a big tough uncompromising bloke who men would follow into battle
throughout these next months an alpha male will establish himself in the group and i hope the captain is picked on ability and not race> i think the worst thing that could happen would be to pick an aussie if there is clearly another more dominant leader in the group.
mortlock doeant spend enough time on the park to be captain for me and i doubt his ability to make those charging runs of old... a great back captain/ vice captain thou no doubt

 

[Gnostic]

lol, its hardly a generalisation, you see it everday in Australia, dont kid yourself otherwise... from the tyrant boat people invading our shores to the credibility of Australias new cricket player and his musilim beliefs...

there is no good reason as to why a Australian would make a better captain then a foreign player for he Rebels, making Mortlock as captain does nothing to improve depth in australian rugby..

Like I said TOCC, generlisations are silly, foolish even, especially when you let such pre-conceived ideas blind you to what was actually posted.

I said the positions should be used to develop Australian Eligible players. Where the individual originates has no bearing on the argument. I wouldn't like to see Delve get the Captaincy as he isn't eligible. I would say the same for Lipman (though I would also say the other issues he was involved in should pre-clude him from the Captaincy in any event).

Don't try and put xenophobia or racism onto what I have posted, and surely do not try and drag in irrelevant outside issues to try and support your agenda.

 

[TOCC]

Like I said TOCC, generlisations are silly, foolish even, especially when you let such pre-conceived ideas blind you to what was actually posted.

I said the positions should be used to develop Australian Eligible players. Where the individual originates has no bearing on the argument. I wouldn't like to see Delve get the Captaincy as he isn't eligible. I would say the same for Lipman (though I would also say the other issues he was involved in should pre-clude him from the Captaincy in any event).

Don't try and put xenophobia or racism onto what I have posted, and surely do not try and drag in irrelevant outside issues to try and support your agenda.

keep your panties on tiger, no one has mentioned racism.. and you shouldnt taint xenohpobia with such a negative brush, its widely accepted that a century of political onslaught has engrained this in the Australian pyshce... Germans, Japanese, Communism, Korea, Vietnam, East Timor, 'boat people' and terrorists have been the foundation for every major australian political campaign in the past 100yrs.

I have just begged the question, why should the captaincy be restricted to a Australian when the likely candidates are unlikely to contribute anything back to Australian Rugby as a result of been captain.

You also said coaching positions should be restricted to Australians.... why is this?? Why cant a foreigner fill a coaching position?

 

[RugbyReg]

They can, he's saying they shouldn't.

 

[Newter]

i prefer a captain to be a forward, a big tough uncompromising bloke who men would follow into battle
throughout these next months an alpha male will establish himself in the group and i hope the captain is picked on ability and not race> i think the worst thing that could happen would be to pick an aussie if there is clearly another more dominant leader in the group.
mortlock doeant spend enough time on the park to be captain for me and i doubt his ability to make those charging runs of old... a great back captain/ vice captain thou no doubt

Yeah, fully agree with this. The captain isn't just a marketing figure, he's got to be the natural leader in the side. If that man is Gareth Delve then they'd only be causing trouble by giving the captaincy to someone else.

The wrong decision in this area is a serious issue. Just look at the Brumbies, where Stephen Hoiles is not the man most respected within the team.

If they give the captaincy to one of the foreigners, like Somerville or Delve, and you get a credible leader who puts in stirring performances week in, week out, I don't think accents will bother the fans all that much.