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Melbourne Rebels 2011

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stoff

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Another AFL guy. Corcoran was at Melbourne and Essendon, before Athletics Australia. He actually came and spoke at my high school once and was impressive, but that was 12 years ago, while he was still with Melbourne, and I can't remember his role at either organisation. At least he is another guy who has a good understanding of the local market, but was does a manager of Rubgy operations do?
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

stoff said:
Another AFL guy. Corcoran was at Melbourne and Essendon, before Athletics Australia. He actually came and spoke at my high school once and was impressive, but that was 12 years ago, while he was still with Melbourne, and I can't remember his role at either organisation. At least he is another guy who has a good understanding of the local market, but was does a manager of Rubgy operations do?

Maintain links with the local amateur game? Hmm, I think they call that a Development Officer.

I actually have no clue.
 

stoff

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Wiki'ed it - was footy operations manager at both Essendon and Melbourne. My knowldege of AFL clubs is that footy operations are in charge of coaching, players, fitness, etc - basically everything to do with on ground performance. Interesting to see how that works in with MacQueen's role.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

My friend who is heavily involved in Victorian Athletics did not rate his sporting administration abilities at Athletics Australia but we will have to see.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

no, no administrator at Athletics Australia can be overly praised. Its a shambolic organisation.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Noddy said:
no, no administrator at Athletics Australia can be overly praised. Its a shambolic organisation.

In all fairness AFL to Rugby is a much more logical transfer than AFL to Athletics.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

stoff said:
Another AFL guy. Corcoran was at Melbourne and Essendon, before Athletics Australia. He actually came and spoke at my high school once and was impressive, but that was 12 years ago, while he was still with Melbourne, and I can't remember his role at either organisation. At least he is another guy who has a good understanding of the local market, but was does a manager of Rubgy operations do?

My guess is that he'd be responsible for provisioning the team with goods and services.
 
C

chief

Guest
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

I hope the Rebels sign a token AFL player, that might actually have had a slight history in the game, and knows some rugby skills and can apply them. Would be great for gaining a few crowd members.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

chief said:
I hope the Rebels sign a token AFL player, that might actually have had a slight history in the game, and knows some rugby skills and can apply them. Would be great for gaining a few crowd members.

If it was a big name signing it would cost too much and if it wasn't it wouldn't be worth the risk.

They should pinch some AFL boys meeting the description above for the Academy for sure.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Always wondered why rugby hasn't tried to use a rules coach for catching the high ball and kicking skills training.

I'd be interested to see a good full forward or ruckman at 6. The skill of taking the ball in the air is one that they train and select for, and should ensure possession from the kick-off. It would do your lineout a heap of good, should run the ball up OK, all you have to do is teach him how to tackle and ruck.

An on-baller at 7 or 12 might be interesting too.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Hawko said:
I'd be interested to see a full forward or ruckman at 6. The skill of taking the ball in the air is one that they train and select for, and should ensure possession from the kick-off. It would do your lineout a heap of good, should run the ball up OK, all you have to do is teach him how to tackle and ruck.

An on-baller at 7 or 12 might be interesting too.

The similarities of a Rugby openside flanker and a Aussie Football rover start and end at them being on-ballers. It would take years to teach a Aussie Football player how to run the correct lines and how to even think about approaching a ruck.

As far as a lineout forward goes jumping is different when you are being lifted and going into contact is different too (rugby tackles are afl trips). "All you have to do is teach them to tackle and ruck"? Jesus, I hope that was said in jest.

Good lateral thinking and the athleticism is there but I don't think it would come off. The only position an AFL-Rugby convert would succeed is at fullback, even then you'd have to have the kickingest game plan around (and to make his high ball skills worth it they'd have to kick a tonne too).

I can't see an AFL to Rugger transfer working unless the player has at least a few years of union under there belt. I'd love to be proved wrong though and I think fullback (or maybe wing) is the only position I would be.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Also remember before you suggest any AFL converts, the Risk V Dollars comparison would be ridiculous.

AFL players make alot, to change codes it would have to be worth their while.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Hawko said:
I'd be interested to see a good full forward or ruckman at 6.

I'd be interested to see - and it would happen - any S14 number 6 or athletic 4 or 5 belt the living daylights out of the AFL's "big men", either full forward or ruckman. It would be a total mismatch, a massacree.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Hawko said:
Always wondered why rugby hasn't tried to use a rules coach for catching the high ball and kicking skills training.

That has been tried, many times. The rules blokes can't take the high ball and can't kick a rugby ball.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Wasn't there a Canadian international, Pike or Pyke, who played for the Swans? And, similarly, there was a schoolboy rugby player, from Shore I think, who chose AFL (much like Nicky Price I guess although this guy was a ruckman, I think, and a forward in rugby).
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Hawko said:
Always wondered why rugby hasn't tried to use a rules coach for catching the high ball and kicking skills training.

They have, in fact twice in recent history. Michael Byrne (ex-Swans) was brought in by Macqueen and has subsequently been used by both the Boks and ABs, and Ben Perkins (ex-Port Power) has been used by some rugby clubs, especially in New Zealand as he now lives in Queenstown. Apart from these two instances rugby clubs should use their local AFL clubs more often to fine tune backs' kicking skills and to improve forwards' skills taking the high ball at restarts. For Lachie Turner not to be a better kicker than he is while hanging around with Swans at Moore Park is inexcusable. Chris Latham used an AFL trainer to improve his kicking and was the best torpedo punter going around.
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Cutter said:
Wasn't there...a schoolboy rugby player, from Shore I think, who chose AFL (much like Nicky Price I guess although this guy was a ruckman, I think, and a forward in rugby)?

Lewis Roberts-Thomson. Family came from Melbourne and his dad sent him to a good school. Played number 8 for Shore firsts in 2001 and would you believe the numbskull Shore coaches wouldn't let him take the (open field) kicks as he was a forward! He was committed to AFL as even that year he played for the Swans during school holidays.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

like this Mike Coleman article. Don't 100% agree, but still like it:

WATCHING the Michael Keaton movie Multiplicity on television this week, I immediately thought of the state of Australian rugby. As you do.

Multiplicity is about a bloke named Doug who clones himself in order to make life better, and for a short time it works.

Then he clones himself again, and then one of the clones clones himself.

At which point the gene pool is running a little dry.

The first clone is belligerent, unshaven and always sucking on a beer. Clone two is neat, polite and very interested in floral arrangements.

And then there is clone three. He wears an aviator's cap, eats shaving cream and talks gibberish.

As clone two describes it to Doug: "You know how when you make a copy of a copy it's not as sharp?"

To which Doug screams: "OK, that's it. New rule, no more Dougs."

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

And that's when I started thinking about Australian rugby.

I mean look at the Super 14 table right now.

NSW Waratahs are coming first. The Reds are off to their best start to a season for yonks and are nicely positioned in fifth place. The Brumbies have won one more game than the Reds but sit seventh on percentages.

And then down the bottom with one win from seven games you've got the Western Force wearing an aviator's cap, eating shaving cream and talking gibberish.

And the really scary thing? They're going to clone them.

When is someone at rugby HQ going to put their foot down and say: "OK, that's it. New rule, no more Dougs". Or words to that effect.

Sure Multiplicity was only a silly movie, but it still made a good point. There's only so many times you can copy something before it's not as sharp.

In rugby terms Australia only has so many players, and the majority of them come from two places, Queensland and NSW.

Developing those players doesn't come cheap. It's no coincidence that those two states have both gone broke and had to be bailed out by the ARU. It's also no coincidence that an Australian team hasn't won the Super 14 since the introduction of the Western Force four years ago.

The arrival of the new clone led to a talent drain from which the Reds are only just starting to recover.

Just in time for the arrival of the Melbourne Rebels.

Now OK, it's a professional game and you have to expect that players will go to whichever franchise offers them the best deal, but you only have to look at the Force to see that there is only so much talent to go around.

And if you needed any more proof just have a look at the Rebels' big signing this week - Stirling Mortlock.

No question Stirlo was once a terrific player. A battering ram who put his body on the line so many times for the Brumbies and Australia that these days he's held together with masking tape and super glue.

The Brumbies can't find a place for him every week; the Wallabies didn't want to pay him past next year's World Cup, but yet the Rebels are building a team around him.

Of course, they can't hope for Mortlock to be on the field too often throughout the term of his three-year contract, which will put coach Rod Macqueen in something of a quandary.

Macqueen, who worked miracles when he kick-started the Brumbies with a team of rejects and unknowns back in 1996, was openly critical of the calculated and callous way the Force decimated Queensland 10 years later.

Now he has to put together a squad that will be good enough, fast enough, to win over and keep the AFL-centric Melbourne public.

If the much-hyped State of Origin matches played in Melbourne over the years have shown us one thing, it's that Victorians will go along to anything once, if only to compare it - mostly unfavourably - to their game.

Still, at least in CEO Brian Waldron the Rebels have got the right man in charge. The former Melbourne Storm boss had only been over from AFL for five minutes when he was calling rugby league "our game".

It shouldn't be long before he's saying the same about rugby union.

Le's hope he gets the shaving cream out of his mouth first.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

Biffo said:
Hawko said:
I'd be interested to see a good full forward or ruckman at 6.

I'd be interested to see - and it would happen - any S14 number 6 or athletic 4 or 5 belt the living daylights out of the AFL's "big men", either full forward or ruckman. It would be a total mismatch, a massacree.

You're right. The full forward and ruckman would "massacree" the converted rugby player. People who assume that X and Y from game Z could play game C and belt A and B are generally wrong when both games are fully professional.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like AFL and can't watch much of it before I have to change channels unless it's a close game that's exciting. But any S14 number 6 does not have the kicking or overhead catching skills, or even ruck skills of any AFL player. Those AFL guys practice and train those skills every day. And AFL training is very professional and very hard. Not to mention that AFL players are generally much more aerobically fit than rugby players.

But someone mentioned Pyke, the Canadian lock/blindside who joined the Swans as a ruckman. Pyke would've been good enough to play for some of the weaker S14 teams. And seen his success? I'll help - he's not one.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Re: Rebels deadline ends, update here on what you hear.

An interesting well written article but a little stupid when you consider what is actually happening here.
 
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