Genia to the Force?

[tranquility]

Love QLD complaining about the force, if the Force hadnt raped you, you wouldn't have hit rock bottom, nor had the playing kist you do now and probably wouldn't have a championship.

The force lost there be player last year to melbourne, the cycle isn't all one way.

Cheers mate, you just cheered me up. I just remembered our Championship. God I like it.

 

[TOCC]

Love QLD complaining about the force, if the Force hadnt raped you, you wouldn't have hit rock bottom, nor had the playing kist you do now and probably wouldn't have a championship.

The force lost there be player last year to melbourne, the cycle isn't all one way.

well it could also be argued that if the Force hadnt raped the Reds then they wouldnt have spent 4 seasons finishing in the bottom 2 spots on the ladder... I think you will be hard pressed finding a Reds fan who would say the Championship made the 4 seasons of misery all worth it, but it did however provide a very satisfying reward to those who stayed during the grim years.

 

[Moono75]

I think supporters from each of the states have their own opinions on what's the best way forward for the other states, without having an appreciation for the difficulties encountered in that particular local market. Horses for courses. What works for you in a traditional rugby state won't necissarily work over here in an AFL dominated state.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Love QLD complaining about the force, if the Force hadnt raped you, you wouldn't have hit rock bottom, nor had the playing kist you do now and probably wouldn't have a championship.

And if my aunty had a dick she'd be my uncle...

The force Waratahs lost there be player last year to melbourne, the cycle isn't all one way.

Fixed that up for you

Remember that most of us long term Reds supporters may have forgiven, but certainly have not forgotten, about the Force making Sharpe an offer he couldn't refuse when he was the Reds captain at the time, along with a bunch of other players, and gutting the team. It didn't work for them then, and I doubt that it would have this time either.

 

[Boomer]

Im purely saying that the Force should be aiming up in the grassroot development part of the game, not reducing development officers as they have been. Until that is solved, the Force will always be attempting to pay more for players to offset the home state factor.

I have been long against the recruitment of big name players to the Force, i really dont understand why the quick fix is seen as the best option. Look at the Brumbies, their player recruiment in 2012 consisted of fringe players from other squads, club players with potential and a rugby league recruit.

Take al look at the ARU annual report... a record 3.7k senior players versus 100k plus across all age groups in Qld.

Not quite a direct comparison but there are intense differences in scope between those two.

You support a national game? Be prepared for blokes to leave for a game.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Love QLD complaining about the force, if the Force hadnt raped you, you wouldn't have hit rock bottom, nor had the playing kist you do now and probably wouldn't have a championship.

The force lost there be player last year to melbourne, the cycle isn't all one way.

Pocock went to Melbourne?

 

[TOCC]

Take al look at the ARU annual report... a record 3.7k senior players versus 100k plus across all age groups in Qld.

Not quite a direct comparison but there are intense differences in scope between those two.

You support a national game? Be prepared for blokes to leave for a game.

Nice work manipulating the numbers there.. At no point was i comparing the two states, they are obviously vastly different.

However, ACT and WA player numbers are rather similar.
WA currently still has more rugby players then the Brumbies did in 2000...Hence begs the question, why are we still not seeing the fruits of this maturing into the Western Force ranks. Yes there is competition from the AFL and VAFL, but the Canberra raiders were also targetting the prime rugby/league players in the ACT during the same period.

 

[BarneySF]

"Genia's love of singing the Reds team song must be worth around $200,000 a year..."

Beautiful work from Grow-Grow.

 

[Scotty]

Didn't your reliable source say this morning that Genia's signing was a sure thing?

Exactly the point.

 

[Slim 293]

Exactly the point.

So your "sources" are only reliable only after the fact?

Not before?

 

[RedsHappy]

Interesting that Genia is indicating that the months-long uncertainty over his stay-or-go negotiations impacted his form:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...-queensland-reds/story-fn8t7efs-1226343103194

If we look at the RG transfer dramas, and now this, and other ongoing, distracting speculations, there must be a case for establishing a fixed transfer window in Aus rugby, a fixed period out of season when and only when formal discussions and new contracts for changed Aus-based coaching and player positions can take place. Tough if this doesn't correlate with the NH season, that's a manageable problem.

No one can argue that the recent machinations with RG and WG (as examples, there's more to come) have been anything other than negative for the total game and actually or potentially destructive for most parties involved when taking place mid-season.

 

[Ignoto]

Interesting that Genia is indicating that the months-long uncertainty over his stay-or-go negotiations impacted his form:

Its exactly the reason why all negotiations should be held after the Super competition or after the ARC.

 

[Braveheart81]

Its exactly the reason why all negotiations should be held after the Super competition or after the ARC.

This sort of rule is a complete waste of time though.

Rugby League used to have the anti tampering rule whereby you weren't allowed to negotiate contracts until after a certain date. As soon as that date came, a host of contracts are announced immediately. Of course they were being discussed before they should have been.

It is naive to think that between players, agents and clubs, negotiations won't go on at all times of the year regardless of what rules you set.

Contract negotiations are a fact of life and there is nothing you can do to stop them happening at all times throughout the year.

 

[Ignoto]

Contract negotiations are a fact of life and there is nothing you can do to stop them happening at all times throughout the year.

I agree there isn't much you can do. You could possibly adopt the European Football approach of having two "transfer" periods throughout the year. So say from Dec-Feb first period. Then July-August second period.

You could then couple this with sanctions on agents (where I'm lead to believe they require some "approval/certification" by the ARU/SANZAR/IRB to negotiate with them and the players. If you're found to breach these then kiss your cert goodbye and club/players fined.

 

[Braveheart81]

The European Transfer windows relate to actually allowing transfers to take place at that time.

I think most Super Rugby clubs and fans would be far more unhappy if Super Rugby transfers were allowed during the season.

How would Brumbies fans feel if Michael Hooper had played the last two games for the Tahs and was heading back to Canberra this weekend to play against the Brumbies?

I don't think the licensing of player agents and then trying to impose sanctions on them for negotiating at the wrong times is a wise move. To be effective SANZAR would have to become a quasi Gestapo, tracing emails, phone calls etc. trying to catch players and agents out. I think it would just be a huge negative PR exercise and would shift the focus well and truly away from the rugby.

 

[Ignoto]

The European Transfer windows relate to actually allowing transfers to take place at that time.

While true, it also allows for contracts to be signed. Scrap the name and just call it a "signing window".

I don't think the licensing of player agents and then trying to impose sanctions on them for negotiating at the wrong times is a wise move.

I'm pretty sure player agents are already licenced - http://www.irb.com/mm/document/lawsregs/regulations/04/23/31/42331_pdf.pdf (just trying to find out where the ARU has spelled it out).

But RUPA has an accreditation requirement as well http://www.rupa.com.au/accredited-agents/becoming-accredited

 

[Karl]

Look, a little cloak and dagger and argy bargy is inevitable in professional sports. Plus team management, players etc occasionally jump the gun, demonstrate poor judgement, act without discretion etc. As long as it doesn't get out of control or descend into unethical behaviour it's just part of the landscape now.

 

[farva]

Interesting that Genia is indicating that the months-long uncertainty over his stay-or-go negotiations impacted his form:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...-queensland-reds/story-fn8t7efs-1226343103194

If we look at the RG transfer dramas, and now this, and other ongoing, distracting speculations, there must be a case for establishing a fixed transfer window in Aus rugby, a fixed period out of season when and only when formal discussions and new contracts for changed Aus-based coaching and player positions can take place. Tough if this doesn't correlate with the NH season, that's a manageable problem.

No one can argue that the recent machinations with RG and WG (as examples, there's more to come) have been anything other than negative for the total game and actually or potentially destructive for most parties involved when taking place mid-season.

Remember as well that when the Force came in, the other 3 franchises were given plenty of warning and signed all of their big name players straight up to protect them.
The Force were forced by the way their introduction went, to look to whatever players they could get their hands on. The Reds were picked on because they had not got their act together well enough to protect their top players.

I remember seeing an interview with someone from Force recruitment (cant remember who) saying that basically any super rugby experienced player who was not on contract was offered something, and they accepted all who were keen - there was just a fear that players wouldnt want to make the move to an experimental team.

Blaming the Force is not the way to go. If I were a QLD fan, I would blame the QLD management for being so inept as to not be able to sign their star players like the Brumbies and Tahs did.

And in regard to players in Perth, and the Force not having many players from Perth yet, consider this.
We need to assume that to succeed in rugby, someone needs to have played it from juniors upwards.
If a 12 year old decided to sign up and play rugby when the Force first arrived then they would now be 18. They would just be in the academy.
The growth has been recent so we need to check the player stocks from WA in the U20s and Aus Schoolboys, and there is a good representation in there from WA. This suggests that the Force is working on bringing talent through.

It will take IMO 10 more years for the Force to really start producing talent that reflects their playing numbers, as that is the time taken for someone starting today as a 10 year old junior to move through the system.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Im still dirty on the Reds and Tim Horan, dont think for one second he didnt have a hand in this. genia says that the offer from the reds didnt change but just think about this.

Once the news was made public by Horan and QRU do you not think that a shit load of 3rd party money would have swamped in for Genia to stay... the reds offer may not have changed but i bet his pay check at the end of the week will have!!!

QRU new what they were doing and their puppet (muppet) horan did the dirty work.

 

[Moono75]

well it could also be argued that if the Force hadnt raped the Reds then they wouldnt have spent 4 seasons finishing in the bottom 2 spots on the ladder... I think you will be hard pressed finding a Reds fan who would say the Championship made the 4 seasons of misery all worth it, but it did however provide a very satisfying reward to those who stayed during the grim years.

I'll just point out that the Reds had bad form from 2000 to 2009. The Force only came into the competition in 2006. They were their own worst enemy, no help from the Force required.