Ewen McKenzie - Life after the Reds

[Ghibli]

No I don't believe being a Kiwi prevents you from coaching Australian players due to a different psyche or some stupid shit like that, coaches at provincial level have showed globally that isn't a barrier. What I do believe is that a national coach should be of that nationality in order to bring out the passion and nationalism that is required from a national team. I really can't see how Deans can bring out the necessary hatred in his players towards the ABs.

I see your point. Unfortunately for the Wallabies and their supporters, Deans has been unable to bring out the necessary hatred in his players also towards Samoa, Ireland, Scotland, France and Italy (couple of close calls) to name a few. With the exception of a few matches when the Wobs had their back against the wall, Deans has failed to inspire his players pretty much consistently across the years. In addition, he also failed in other areas such as player selection, player management, strategic approach to matches, all critical elements of a winning rugby culture.
Would White be able to bring out the hatred of his players towards RSA? Don't know for sure, but if they play like the Brumbies vs the Sharks last saturday I'd be happy with the result.

 

[Scoey]

Given the way the Saffa's treated Clyde when he left (but more so how they treated his mother) he probably has a bit of something burning in there; but that's not your point.....

 

[Richo]

Deans' failure to bring out the passion of the Wallabies has more to do with the gibberish that comes out of his mouth than whether he's a Kiwi.

 

[en_force_er]

Deans' failure to bring out the passion of the Wallabies has more to do with the gibberish that comes out of his mouth than whether he's a Kiwi.

Some of his gibberish is interesting when you think about it but I think interesting takes on things and musing (he's got this famous speech about the 8 "spaces" on a rugby field) but these don't make a good coach.

Being about to explain complicated ideals is layman's terms makes a good coach.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

No I don't believe being a Kiwi prevents you from coaching Australian players due to a different psyche or some stupid shit like that, coaches at provincial level have showed globally that isn't a barrier. What I do believe is that a national coach should be of that nationality in order to bring out the passion and nationalism that is required from a national team. I really can't see how Deans can bring out the necessary hatred in his players towards the ABs.

I am confident that no coach of any team thinks true hatred of the opposition is a useful motivational tool. Anyway, the beauty of rugby is that it couldn't last long: the post match would probably soon prove that richie isn't the c*** we all think he is. We might be able to hate their coach for longer.
If you use hatred as your motivator how do you motivate for the lions?
To be fair to Deans he sings our national anthem before the game he wears our blazer to the game.
QC (Quade Cooper) and JOC (James O'Connor) might do well under Jake: he could be the strong parent they need.


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[Jets]

The other thing that will rule Jake White out of coaching the Wallabies is that he played Hooker at school. What would he know about running rugby?

 

[Ignoto]

QC (Quade Cooper) and JOC (James O'Connor) might do well under Jake: he could be the strong parent they need.

You don't think the third amigo would benefit with having a strong fatherly figure in his life

Hypothetically, if the ARU were to appoint White after the lions tour, isn't he still contracted to the Brumbies? If so, who's paying out his contract? Or would the Brumbies just roll over and cop it sweet that they lost White?

 

[Braveheart81]

Hypothetically, if the ARU were to appoint White after the lions tour, isn't he still contracted to the Brumbies? If so, who's paying out his contract? Or would the Brumbies just roll over and cop it sweet that they lost White?

I would imagine that most of the Super Rugby coaches have clauses in their contracts that allow them to escape their contract if certain international appointments become available.

Who knows with White though. Chances are that when he came to Australia, the Wallabies job wasn't on his radar. If it was then he's even more cunning than I give him credit for (and I give him plenty of credit!).

 

[Bowside]

You need a bloke who is both capable of success but also holds a passion for the job. Its the passion for the wallaby jersey and legacy that keeps you motivated when working on gameplans in the early hours of the morning or on the long flights home from the republic.

Whether or not you have to be australian to posses such qualities in this job I don't know. But I like the fact that link is putting his hand up, rather than needed to be sought out and coerced like deans was.

 

[I like to watch]

Yep that is a view I can agree with.
On the other hand, the timing of his announcement smacks of playing politics.
I despise politics in any work environment.

 

[Blue]

I would rule White out on his nationality. Not because of any xenophobia I have, but because it would divide the rugby community just as Deans has for the last 5 years. I used to think it didn't matter where our coaches come from but the Deans experience has shown me that we just aren't 'big' enough to handle it.
Having said that I think both guys would do a great job and would be a step u from what we have now.

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Short summary: "I am not a xenophobe but I don't want a foreigner."

Deans has divided the rugby community because of the win / loss percentage. Had it been 80% you would probably have been one the first to call for a statue to be erected in his honor.

Having said that I think Link would be a good choice as well.

 

[Blue]

You need a bloke who is both capable of success but also holds a passion for the job. Its the passion for the wallaby jersey and legacy that keeps you motivated when working on gameplans in the early hours of the morning or on the long flights home from the republic.

Utter drivel.

So being absolutely driven for success and taking pride in your work is not enough? There is no passion in there? There is no passion in seeing young people under your watch develop? There is no passion is seeing results? There is no passion in seeing the mental toughness you helped build in people play out on a rugby field?

Jake barely spends time in SA as it is. If he was Wallaby coach he would barely be going there at all. He is a hands on manager.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Phar Lap, Rusty Crowe, Keith Urban, Crowded House ..... all great Aussies.

Our history is full of demonstrations where we have proven how non-Xenophobic we can be, especially if the reformed former NZer is any good.

I'd even barrack for Dame Kiri Te Kawana if she turned out in a Southern Cross emblazened frock with a wattle sprig at the Opera in the Domain.

 

[Blue]

Phar Lap, Rusty Crowe, Keith Urban, Crowded House ... all great Aussies.

Our history is full of demonstrations where we have proven how non-Xenophobic we can be, especially if the reformed former NZer is any good.

I'd even barrack for Dame Kiri Te Kawana if she turned out in a Southern Cross emblazened frock with a wattle sprig at the Opera in the Domain.

Enjoy those. No more 457's. We'll have to develop them ourselves now. Can anyone on the board sing?

 

[RugbyReg]

Short summary: "I am not a xenophobe but I don't want a foreigner."

Deans has divided the rugby community because of the win / loss percentage. Had it been 80% you would probably have been one the first to call for a statue to be erected in his honor.

Having said that I think Link would be a good choice as well.

nup. That's just added to it. There were plenty of people against Deans from the start (as there were people against appointments of Knuckles, Jones (both Eddie and Alan), Dwyer etc. Its just the biggest recent people were against Deans was the fact he wasn't an Aussie.

I was one of those and maintain that stance. It's old school I acknowledge, but the Australian Rugby team is still a representative team of the best rugby players in Oz. I think the coach should be a representative selection as well. The best Australian Rugby coach.

Now White is different to Deans as White as 'committed' to Oz rugby for a little over a year now. But my preference will always be that and Aussie coaches the Australian Rugby team.

 

[suckerforred]

I was one of the ones that very quietly did a happy dance when the ARU appointed Deans. (Yeah I know shoot me now.) Then said publically "Let's see how he goes." I actually thought that the talent he had displayed at Super level with the Crusaders and as an assistant AB's coach gave him the right to have a chop. Now I think that he needs to move on. What ever the reason he has not been successful at this level in this country.

What point am I trying to make - I think both Link & Jake make reasonable (OK that is an understatement) coaches. How would they go at an Australian international level? Well we really don't know.

Lets do a little pro & con work as though we are considering them for the job:

Link
Pros
Has coached an Australian team to a SupeRugby title - after turning said team around from a pretty dire position.
Has been an assistant Wallabies coach
Is Australian
Has played for the Wallabies
Is not going to take any of the ARU bullshit



Cons
Has not been head coach for an international team.
Is not going to take any of the ARU bullshit - will not manage the personalities or politics well.
Is Australian - will he be married to the 'style' crap?


Jake
Pros
Has been head coach for an international side & was reasonably sucessful at it.
Is not going to take any of the ARU bullshit - and has the perfect excuse. Sorry I didn't know that is how it worked.
Will not have any preconceived ideas of where players should be selected from or what 'style' of rugby should be played. (Personally I don't give a shit as long as we win.)
Has coached in Australia
Has been able to turn the Brumbies into a tight unit in just over a year.
In not Australian - He won't have been indoctrinated into the politics that is the ARU.


Cons
Is not Australian
Has not played higher level rugby.



So, I have started the list. Please add to it or take away. Just, if you want to take away cross it out rather than delete it, or just have the point in both sides of the arguement as I have done.

 

[cyclopath]

Enjoy those. No more 457's. We'll have to develop them ourselves now. Can anyone on the board sing?

Well, I reckon better than Phar Lap, yeah.

 

[something]

...why is deans even the coach? i only got into rugby like 3 years ago and he has been coach the whole time and just seems to do nothing right. It doesnt make sense.

 

[Dumbledore]

.why is deans even the coach? i only got into rugby like 3 years ago and he has been coach the whole time and just seems to do nothing right. It doesnt make sense.

Well he coached the Crusaders to seven Soup rugby titles and was an assistant coach for one of the most exciting All Black sides ever. He was by far the best credentialled candidate for the job. At times he's got this Australian side playing some very good rugby, he's also done a good job of developing depth. That said, I think he's done his dash and it's time to move on. To say he's done nothing right is just plain ignorant.

 

[No4918]

.why is deans even the coach? i only got into rugby like 3 years ago and he has been coach the whole time and just seems to do nothing right. It doesnt make sense.

This:

Canterbury and Crusaders

Deans was appointed as coach of the Canterbury team for the 1997 National Provincial Championship (NPC) season.[5] He was assisted by Steve Hansen (current All Black coach). Deans' first season was a success, with Canterbury beating Auckland for the first time in 14 years, then going on to win the title.[6] The following year he managed the Canterbury Crusaders (since renamed Crusaders) Super Rugby franchise who were coached by Wayne Smith. The Crusaders won the title, beating the Auckland Blues (since renamed the Blues) in the final at Eden Park.[7] The Crusaders repeated this feat the following year, with Deans again manager.[8]
In 2000 Deans took over as Crusaders coach after Wayne Smith became All Blacks coach. He coached the Crusaders to their third successive Super 12 title that year, beating the Brumbies in Canberra. He continued to coach the Canterbury team in the NPC in 2000 which lead to a Ranfurly Shield win over Waikato; the shield was held until 2003 (totalling 23 challenges). Canterbury's success in the 2000 season saw them host the NPC final at Jade Stadium against Wellington. A victory would have seen Deans coach teams to Super 12, Ranfurly Shield and NPC titles in the same year; however eventually Wellington won 34–29.[9]
From 2001 Deans concentrated solely on the Crusaders. The 2001 Super 12 season was his least successful in charge – the Crusaders finish tenth. But the following season, the Crusaders went through the entire season undefeated and won their fourth title overall, and their second with Deans as coach. In the following two seasons the Crusaders finished runners-up to the Blues in 2003, and then the Brumbies in 2004. The Crusaders won their third title under Deans in 2005. The Crusaders won their sixth title (the first of the expanded Super 14) in 2006, and their fourth win with Deans in charge, making him the most successful coach in Super Rugby history so far. In 2008, Deans' last season in charge of the Crusaders, he coached them to a seventh super rugby title after they beat the NSW Waratahs at Jade Stadium. In honour of the Deans family, Jade Stadium (now AMI Stadium) erected a new stand called the "Deans Stand". Following the 22 February aftershock, there remains doubt as to whether AMI Stadium will ever be used again, after some of the ground, including parts of the Deans stand, suffered structural damage. Sadly as a result, the impressive new stand was not showcased during the 2011 Rugby World Cup.
John Mitchell appointed Deans as his assistant when he became All Blacks coach in late 2001. Deans held the position until Mitchell was replaced after the 2003 Rugby World Cup. Under Mitchell and Deans, the All Blacks won the 2002 and 2003 Tri-Nations titles, as well as the Bledisloe Cup in 2003.

Sorry, no idea why he is still the coach so can't help with that question.