Ewen McKenzie - Life after the Reds

[Inside Shoulder]

firstly, I love the tie between Link and beef, although he is looking trimmer these days

there was a report recently that some ARU official(s) claimed Link should never be wallaby coach because he was a forward, and therefore has no idea about getting the backs to fire like an Australian coach should.

Yeah top call that: Dwyer - breakaway; Brock - breakaway; McQueen - breakaway.
Deans: fullback.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I don't buy that...

The reason that Deans hasn't been a successful test coach because he doesn't understand the Australian "psych" is in my mind, just ridiculous...

I'm not even sure how that actually factors into coaching a professional rugby team?

an absurd comment. not just he doesn't understand the australian psyche, but that a foreigner couldn't understand it.
did that apply to aussie Gus?
surely it's not just an australian thing, but a global thing...and yet how did hansen and henry do o/s?

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah top call that: Dwyer - breakaway; Brock - breakaway; McQueen - breakaway.
Deans: fullback.

Further on this theme.

Richard Graham: fullback

John Connolly, Eddie Jones, Michael Foley: Hooker

Ewen McKenzie, ???: Prop

Jake White, Graham Henry: nothing beyond schoolboys. Just coaching.

 

[MatWhal]

Maybe, just maybe Link is getting ready to take over as ARU HPU boss!

Good call! That role hasn't been filled yet has it?

Both Link and White are great head coach options, 12 months ago I would have favoured Link 100% but the way the Brumbies have started this year has put an element of doubt in not just my mind but just about everyone's by the looks of things.

This might be getting a little off topic, so let me know if there are other discussions on this... Would Laurie Fischer be available as a forwards coach?? I presume if Dingo leaves the new coach has the luxury of selecting their own coaching team?

 

[Jets]

We should factor in xenophobia when selecting a coach?

And as it stands Link hasn't achieved what White has at test level YET.

I'm not campaigning for White to take over as national coach, but there is no legitimate reason for him not to be considered...

I'm not saying that he won't get the job. I just don't think that they will give him the job. Apparently they wont give it to Link as he was a former prop so their logic isn't very sound.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

on current form he could very well be headed to the Rebels to coach next year.

Hill seems to struggle to get the best out of his players every week and he must surely be on notice that he has to get some wins on the board.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Originally I put this down to links family still being in Sydney - a fact I got from here.
Ireland would make some other explanation necessary.


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[Jets]

Don't think he wants to be a Super coach any more. He wants to coach International rugby.

 

[Sully]

I would rule White out on his nationality. Not because of any xenophobia I have, but because it would divide the rugby community just as Deans has for the last 5 years. I used to think it didn't matter where our coaches come from but the Deans experience has shown me that we just aren't 'big' enough to handle it.
Having said that I think both guys would do a great job and would be a step u from what we have now.

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[Brumbies Guy]

I would rule White out on his nationality. Not because of any xenophobia I have, but because it would divide the rugby community just as Deans has for the last 5 years. I used to think it didn't matter where our coaches come from but the Deans experience has shown me that we just aren't 'big' enough to handle it.
Having said that I think both guys would do a great job and would be a step u from what we have now.

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I'd be pretty "divided" if an aussie like Nucifora got the gig over White just because he's Australian.

 

[en_force_er]

This is a company that selected Nuci for key roles despite the fact he was despised AND reappointed Deans despite the fact that he was also disliked.

You think they'd really not hire a bloke because he's a Saffa? The Aussie Rugby community would at least see it as an intelligent decision. The average punter would see South African and WC winning coach next to his name and would be pretty evenly split in approval.

 

[qwerty51]

but a global thing.and yet how did hansen and henry do o/s?

Not very well.

 

[Ghibli]

I would rule White out on his nationality. Not because of any xenophobia I have, but because it would divide the rugby community just as Deans has for the last 5 years. I used to think it didn't matter where our coaches come from but the Deans experience has shown me that we just aren't 'big' enough to handle it.
Having said that I think both guys would do a great job and would be a step u from what we have now.

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Deans divided the rugby community because he's a mediocre coach at international level, not because he's a kiwi.
If the Wallabies won the World Cup I suspect the rugby community would not be divided, and nationality would not be an issue.

 

[ChargerWA]

Anyway to convince Link he can be Wallabies Coach 1 and Jake he can be Wallabies Coach A? They are both too valuable assets to lose out of our coaching depth in Australia.

But if I had to pick one I would pick Jake. Purely because I look at the style and attitude of the two teams they have built and prefer the Brumbies.

I look at the Reds and see a rockstar team with a bit of rockstar attitude to go with it. Ewen lets Quade get away with shit Jake would never tolerate. Because Quade is so important to the Reds success. I realise that the reds success was mostly built around the tireless work of selfless guys like Beau Robinson and the Fainga'a's, combined with Links brilliant ability to identify and develop talent, but the Quade debacle has reflected on the Reds poorly overall combined with a style I doubt would be successful at the top level.

White on the other hand appears to be building a successful team around a guy like Mowen. They don't rely on the razzle dazzle of the Reds at top flight. Their game plan is something more substantial. They just execute the basics so well they look brilliant. And that is the sort of game plan which could be successful at the international level.

 

[qwerty51]

Deans divided the rugby community because he's a mediocre coach at international level, not because he's a kiwi.

Or he's a mediocre coach of the Wallabies because he's a Kiwi?

 

[Sully]

there are guys who have hated Deans being our coach from the first day he got the job.

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[Ghibli]

Or he's a mediocre coach of the Wallabies because he's a Kiwi?

Could we be a little more specific?
What are the elements of coaching that Deans can't get right because he's a Kiwi, and that an Australian coach instead would get right? Please lets identify what we are talking about.
To me this is a shallow argument. Rugby is rugby, a coach may prefer a different style of play depending on where he's from, and I can understand if people don't want White because they don't want the Wallabies to play that style.
Otherwise, to win we need to pick the best, being either an Australian or not.

 

[The Rant]

But if I had to pick one I would pick Jake. Purely because I look at the style and attitude of the two teams they have built and prefer the Brumbies.

I look at the Reds and see a rockstar team with a bit of rockstar attitude to go with it. Ewen lets Quade get away with shit Jake would never tolerate. Because Quade is so important to the Reds success. I realise that the reds success was mostly built around the tireless work of selfless guys like Beau Robinson and the Fainga'a's, combined with Links brilliant ability to identify and develop talent, but the Quade debacle has reflected on the Reds poorly overall combined with a style I doubt would be successful at the top level.

White on the other hand appears to be building a successful team around a guy like Mowen. They don't rely on the razzle dazzle of the Reds at top flight. Their game plan is something more substantial. They just execute the basics so well they look brilliant. And that is the sort of game plan which could be successful at the international level.

Firstly: Great comment

People talking about 'should our coach be aussie' after the deans era is fine. But you can't compare Deans with White just cos their passports don't have roos on them.

Deans in my opinion has been shocking at building team culture and morale. White on the otherhand seems born to it. The program he has implemented at the brumbies couldn't be further away from Deans' approach. He's really bringing an old school approach which is an element of SA rugby (all their blazers and discipline). The brumbies are spending more than 40hours a week togethre as a unit, starting from breakfast which they all eat together. It's an idea I might not thought would have been a good one but the results are plain. I struggle to imagine James O'Connor or Quade fitting into his steady team-based system.

White has managed to achieve the two most important elements of international rugby: Get the basics right and get the culture right. Any razzle dazzle that the players have in their backpocket can then come out on top of this solid foundation.

I think Mackenzie and White could both coach the wallabies well. I definately think White would have a challenge indoctrinating the other aussies that come in with their superstar hats on. He wouldn't stand for that attitude, and they won't stand being put in their place.

I just hope to god the brumbies players and approach is reflected in the wallabies June selcetions and play!!

 

[qwerty51]

Could we be a little more specific?
What are the elements of coaching that Deans can't get right because he's a Kiwi, and that an Australian coach instead would get right? Please lets identify what we are talking about.
To me this is a shallow argument. Rugby is rugby, a coach may prefer a different style of play depending on where he's from, and I can understand if people don't want White because they don't want the Wallabies to play that style.
Otherwise, to win we need to pick the best, being either an Australian or not.

No I don't believe being a Kiwi prevents you from coaching Australian players due to a different psyche or some stupid shit like that, coaches at provincial level have showed globally that isn't a barrier. What I do believe is that a national coach should be of that nationality in order to bring out the passion and nationalism that is required from a national team. I really can't see how Deans can bring out the necessary hatred in his players towards the ABs.

 

[USARugger]

No I don't believe being a Kiwi prevents you from coaching Australian players due to a different psyche or some stupid shit like that, coaches at provincial level have showed globally that isn't a barrier. What I do believe is that a national coach should be of that nationality in order to bring out the passion and nationalism that is required from a national team. I really can't see how Deans can bring out the necessary hatred in his players towards the ABs.

So then what do you say about players from other nations? Should we have sat Rathbone because he wouldn't "hate" the South Africans enough? Surely Samo would be soft on Fiji?