Brumbies 2012

[Slim 293]

The Reds fans have been doing it for a while now... I guess so?

 

[Newter]

Look I am not going to debate the 2010 Reds lineup here with you. You raise a good point that maybe they were not as settled as I thought. And yes there are some similarities.

But I believe the level of talent in the Reds squad of 2010 is greater than that of the Brumbies now. The 2010 Reds had players clearly on the cusp of something great- Genia, Cooper, Horwill, Ioane, Slipper and Higgers even. I can't see any Brumbies quite on that level. Fainga'a, Hooper and To'omua are talented, sure, but not quite in that league yet.

It's not my target, just where I think they will end up. Again I am not coaching the fucking team.

Retrospective bias. We all "know" these Reds players had great potential then - because they've since lived up to it! But can you properly state that any of those Reds players were outstanding in the 2009 season, or even for the Wallabies? Were they showing any unusual signs of "greatness"? The truth is that each one you mention had shown flashes of brilliance mixed with major flaws or poor injury management or both.

In other words, if you're looking for flashes of brilliance as a guide to how these players might go under proper coaching, have a glance at the form of those young Brumbies you mention. Colby Fainga'a was a line-breaking and hard hitting genius at times last year. He looks by far the most promising player of his family. Ita Vaea was winning the big collisions against seasoned opposition, and winning them with a vengeance. Robbie Coleman gave Mortlock the slip for one memorable try early in the season. Kimlin has shown he knows how to run the ball into small gaps and through them.

6th-8th is a reasonable prediction for this team. But I still think the Force will beat them in Rd 1.

 

[tranquility]

I just want to know who is going to make the backline, so much raw talent.

 

[TOCC]

Anyway, i think their is a lot of talent in the backline, there is going to be some strong wallaby candidates in the future.

 

[barbarian]

In other words, if you're looking for flashes of brilliance as a guide to how these players might go under proper coaching, have a glance at the form of those young Brumbies you mention. Colby Fainga'a was a line-breaking and hard hitting genius at times last year. He looks by far the most promising player of his family. Ita Vaea was winning the big collisions against seasoned opposition, and winning them with a vengeance. Robbie Coleman gave Mortlock the slip for one memorable try early in the season. Kimlin has shown he knows how to run the ball into small gaps and through them.

No doubt Fainga'a is a great prospect, so is Hooper.

But then you start grasping at straws. Ita Vaea is a solid number 8 and was one of the Brumbies best in a lean year. But his workrate wasn't brilliant and he went missing at times. He doesn't really excite me for 2011, I see him as a solid super performer at best.

Coleman could be good and Kimlin is a seasoned veteran. To'omua could be anything as well. They have some good young backs. But these guys are very very green.

But the 2010 Reds had James Horwill (a capped Wallaby and widely tipped star of the future), Will Genia (Set the rugby world alight on the 2009 EOYT), Quade Cooper (capped 11 times before 2010), Digby Ioane (rising star and played 8 tests before 2010), Scott Higginbotham (played a few seasons for the Reds and was clearly going places), Slipper the same. They had a few solid veterans too. They had turned on some great displays against big sides but suffered for consistency and were ravaged by injuries.

There is no comparison between a 2010 Genia and a 2012 White, 2010 Cooper and 2012 To'omua, 2010 Horwill and 2012 Carter, 2010 Ioane and 2012 Lealiifano. These guys are still a year or two away from that. The 2011 Brumbies showed very few flashes of anything. So I don't think the comparison between the 2010 Reds and 2012 Brumbies is accurate. But time will tell.

.

 

[Newter]

No doubt Fainga'a is a great prospect, so is Hooper.

But then you start grasping at straws. Ita Vaea is a solid number 8 and was one of the Brumbies best in a lean year. But his workrate wasn't brilliant and he went missing at times. He doesn't really excite me for 2011, I see him as a solid super performer at best.

Coleman could be good and Kimlin is a seasoned veteran. To'omua could be anything as well. They have some good young backs. But these guys are very very green.

But the 2010 Reds had James Horwill (a capped Wallaby and widely tipped star of the future), Will Genia (Set the rugby world alight on the 2009 EOYT), Quade Cooper (capped 11 times before 2010), Digby Ioane (rising star and played 8 tests before 2010), Scott Higginbotham (played a few seasons for the Reds and was clearly going places), Slipper the same. They had a few solid veterans too. They had turned on some great displays against big sides but suffered for consistency and were ravaged by injuries.

There is no comparison between a 2010 Genia and a 2012 White, 2010 Cooper and 2012 To'omua, 2010 Horwill and 2012 Carter, 2010 Ioane and 2012 Lealiifano. These guys are still a year or two away from that. The 2011 Brumbies showed very few flashes of anything. So I don't think the comparison between the 2010 Reds and 2012 Brumbies is accurate. But time will tell.

.

What I've done here is raise in bold some of your descriptive statements, all of which could apply equally to the Reds of 2009 and the young Brumbies of 2012.

Workrate wasn't brilliant? Hello Scott Higginbotham, circa 2009. Look what a disciplined coaching regime did for him.

Very very green? Ant Fainga'a, Ben Daley, Rob Simmons, Rod Davies.....in 2010, the year they came 5th.

Capped Wallaby, big reputation in Test rugby? Stephen Moore, Pat McCabe. (Incidentally the Reds went without Horwill in their breakthrough year, as he did a knee ligament - further proof of my argument that big Test names aren't necessary for success).

Turned on some great displays against big sides? The Brumbies defeated the eventual champions in Brisbane last year.

But I don't mean to be too hard on you, Barbarian. You admit that the squad has some "great prospect" players. Shame about the "very few flashes of anything" contradiction at the end, but at least having it both ways is progress of a kind.

 

[Newter]

Incidentally if it was obvious to you at the time that the Reds were going to be a raging success in 2010, can you show me your bold prediction in writing? As far as I know Robbie Deans is the only one who called it.

 

[barbarian]

What I've done here is raise in bold some of your descriptive statements, all of which could apply equally to the Reds of 2009 and the young Brumbies of 2012.

Workrate wasn't brilliant? Hello Scott Higginbotham, circa 2009. Look what a disciplined coaching regime did for him.

Very very green? Ant Fainga'a, Ben Daley, Rob Simmons, Rod Davies.....in 2010, the year they came 5th.

Capped Wallaby, big reputation in Test rugby? Stephen Moore, Pat McCabe. (Incidentally the Reds went without Horwill in their breakthrough year, as he did a knee ligament - further proof of my argument that big Test names aren't necessary for success).

Turned on some great displays against big sides? The Brumbies defeated the eventual champions in Brisbane last year.

But I don't mean to be too hard on you, Barbarian. You admit that the squad has some "great prospect" players. Shame about the "very few flashes of anything" contradiction at the end, but at least having it both ways is progress of a kind.

I will call you on some of the statements you bolded then. Which 2012 Brumby set the world alight in 2011? Which Brumby was capped 8 times and regarded as a rising star? Which other Brumby was the same?

You have completely ignored my final paragraph, which is the crux of my argument and the reason the two can't be compared. Of course there are similarities, but there are always similarities in Aussie rugby.

And finally, thank you Newter for your condescension. Seriously, it's good to know someone is thinking about my feelings. Sometimes this place gets so cold and lonely. Hold me, Newter. Hold me...

 

[redstragic]

The cool thing about the Brumbies is that they could be anything this year. I am really looking forward to see what Jake White has done with the culture at the Brumbies and what that changes on the field. Tony Ray was pretty scathing last year, hopefully it can only go up from there.

 

[fatprop]

I just wonder what style of rugby they will play.

Last season they kept ball in hand a lot, I just can't see White continuing that approach, especially with To'omua playing 10

 

[mudskipper]

Shit this tread just hit a new low when Muddy announced the Brumbies locks are comparable to the Reds.

The second row is the weakest position in the Brumbies lineup.
Lets keep things in perspective, it's just getting silly now..

Horwills good, but not the best ever lock going on his 2011 form and his young offerside had nothing at the RWC... I'll happily stand by my statement... Reds strenghts are Cooper Genia Digby, without all working together they're just another S15 team...

 

[TOCC]

Horwills good, but not the best ever lock going on his 2011 form and his young offerside had nothing at the RWC... I'll happily stand by my statement....

If you really think that Kimlin, Carter, Hand and Power are better then Horwill, Simmons, AWH and Humphries then power to you...

Il stand by my comment that the second row is the weakest position in the Brumbies lineup, if you disagree with this and in turn think that the Brumbies have a better second row then the incumbent Wallaby locks then im sure you will identify to the rest of us what you think the weakest position is..

 

[barbarian]

So you are saying Peter Kimlin and Ben Hand are just as good as James Horwill and Rob Simmons.

Well, it's official.

You are taking the piss. Well done for stringing us along this far though, you had me going for a long time. And I am now having a bit of a chuckle. So mission accomplished MS, you master of comedy you.
.

 

[fatprop]

The Reds forwards were very solid, dynamic, unified and effective all last season. (the way they got the ball away from contact so quickly against the Crusaders in round 15 was amazing)

There work ethic and ability to stick to their game plan gave Cooper Genia & Digby et al, the opportunity to do their job.

 

[Slim 293]

Anyways...

Wasn't expecting him to make an impact early on anyways, but:

Brumby stranded as Japanese club refuses early release
BY CHRIS DUTTON, RUGBY UNION
20 Jan, 2012 04:00 AM

A contract stand-off has left monster ACT Brumbies recruit Fotu Auelua stranded in Japan just 35 days out from the opening game of the Super Rugby season.

Despite requesting an early release from his deal with NTT Communications to join his new Brumbies teammates, Auelua still doesn't know when he will arrive in Canberra.

The 119kg wrecking ball is the only member of Jake White's squad who is not at pre-season training before the season-opener against the Western Force on February 24.

The Japanese regular season finishes on February 5, but NTT Communications is in line to make a wildcard playoff which could limit Auelua to just a few days with the Brumbies before they take on the Force.

Making matters worse for the powerful No8 is that he is nursing a medial ligament strain and will not play for the next two weeks.

When Auelua injured his knee, he asked NTT Communications if he could be released early to give him more preparation time with the Brumbies, but his request was denied.

''Obviously Jake would like me [in Canberra] as soon as possible and I was keen to get there to try to catch up with training,'' Auelua said.

''I've asked a couple of times if I could be released [from Japan] and they said no so I respect their decision.

''I'm contracted here and I enjoy it here, but at the same time I feel like I should be with [the Brumbies] getting ready for the season.''

Given Auelua's limited preparation time, he does not expect to be in selection contention for the round one match.

But he has vowed to arrive in the capital injury free and nearing peak fitness to try to fast-track his bid to make his Super Rugby debut.

When Auelua does join the Brumbies, he will be locked in a battle with Ben Mowen, Ita Vaea and Colby Fainga'a to win a starting spot.

The 27-year-old has spent his career playing in France for US Dax and Toulon before moving to Japan last year to join NTT Communications.

He has established himself as a feared ball-runner and his 189cm, 119kg frame has the potential to leave a path of destruction in Super Rugby.

While Auelua is unlikely to feature in the starting XV until he has had sufficient time training with the Brumbies, forwards coach Laurie Fisher and White are starting to get an idea of how their forward pack will look.

Mowen will be the chief lineout caller and can play at the back of the scrum or at blindside flanker.

Damaging ball-runner Vaea burst into Super Rugby last season and played almost every game in his debut campaign.

''[Fotu's] explosive, has the power, strong carry and can hit, he's a very damaging player,'' Fisher said.

''The good thing is we've got flexibility in selection [for the back row], we've got explosive players and we have a choice of guys who bring a different skillset.''

• BRUMBIES TRIALS

February 4: Vs Western Force in Darwin;

• February 11: Vs Queensland Reds in Cairns;
  February 16: Vs ACT XV at Viking Park.

Unleess Vaea suffers from second year syndrome, I expect him to lock down the 8 spot, and Fotu to be an impact player off the bench...

 

[Brumby Jack]

I'm throwing this out there as the starting pack:

1 Alexander
2 Moore
3 Palmer
4 Hand
5 Carter
6 Kimlin
7 Fainga'a
8 Mowen

 

[Slim 293]

BJ, is White now considering Kimlin again for the backrow?

I was under the impression he'd been locked in as a... lock?

 

[Sully]

Finally something actually worth reading in this thread.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Sully, with regard to the T-shirt slogan in your avatar, is that like an agnostic's version of "Jesus is my copilot"?

 

[mudskipper]

If you really think that Kimlin, Carter, Hand and Power are better then Horwill, Simmons, AWH and Humphries then power to you...

Il stand by my comment that the second row is the weakest position in the Brumbies lineup, if you disagree with this and in turn think that the Brumbies have a better second row then the incumbent Wallaby locks then im sure you will identify to the rest of us what you think the weakest position is..

As I said Horwill is good but the others are no better than many locks in OZ rugby... To put it in perspective I don’t think Horwill would make the All Blacks. Kimo is as good as Simmons and old man Humpy... Power will be very good watch this space...