Broadcast options for Australian Rugby

[liquor box]

AFL is the real threat. Most people who watch Union would watch League and vice versa. Should be working toget

Ok, well it was a thought that made sense, but as you say if others are up, would seem not. I know when Super Aotearoa started in 2020 and everyone was real into it, I wondered if it was because we so happy to have sport again may of had something to do with it. But I definitely get feeling we seeing too much of the same with only 6 teams in each comp. I a bit of a tragic, but never missed games from Aus last year, and only really watch the games like Reds/Brumbies now because it seems same ol same ol, and I think many casual fans will be same there, and over here as well now. You need a bit of variety, and before you poo poo it too much, I think Warriors who never look like winning comp are still seemingly getting more or less same interest. And there is not one Leaguie I have sopken too think they are on equal footing with Aus teams!

6 teams is plenty when you have a short season. Prior to having kids I would watch every Super Rugby game every week without fail. I just don't have the time now so only watch Australian games and would be happy for just a Super AU competition with a single game "Superbowl" between the winners in both countries before starting the international series.

I think Bledisloe lost a lot of its character and appeal when we started seeing players from either side of the ditch all of the time, it was nice to go into the series and be wowed by a new player you had never seen before who had a break out match. Now there are no surprises and you can easily compare the teams player for player and generally know who will win as you have just had a season that proves your players are not as good as their opponent.

My preference will be for a 5 team AU competition as I think it was the best couple of seasons of Rugby. I am a realist though and realise this will not occur

 

[Jamie]

6 teams is plenty when you have a short season. Prior to having kids I would watch every Super Rugby game every week without fail. I just don't have the time now so only watch Australian games and would be happy for just a Super AU competition with a single game "Superbowl" between the winners in both countries before starting the international series.

I think Bledisloe lost a lot of its character and appeal when we started seeing players from either side of the ditch all of the time, it was nice to go into the series and be wowed by a new player you had never seen before who had a break out match. Now there are no surprises and you can easily compare the teams player for player and generally know who will win as you have just had a season that proves your players are not as good as their opponent.

My preference will be for a 5 team AU competition as I think it was the best couple of seasons of Rugby. I am a realist though and realise this will not occur

I see your point but the main problem is how are teams meant to survive in a 6 team comp? I would say that teams need at least 10 home games to survive/make a profit

I know that no Super Rugby franchise is setting the world on fire attendance-wise but TT is the way to go. Hopefully next year it will be the proper format.

 

[PhilClinton]

I see your point but the main problem is how are teams meant to survive in a 6 team comp? I would say that teams need at least 10 home games to survive/make a profit

I know that no Super Rugby franchise is setting the world on fire attendance-wise but TT is the way to go. Hopefully next year it will be the proper format.

The game has progressed too far for this to be viable, but scaling back the home games to suburban/smaller grounds partially solves that issue.

It's hard to turn a profit when you're playing in a 50k seater stadium and getting on average 15k bums in seats. In the Reds case, leaving Suncorp behind would be seen as a massive step backwards for them moreso from an optics point of view. But I think many fans would embrace them playing in a smaller stadium where 15k is actually a capacity.

 

[Jamie]

You have to think about sponsors, broadcast partners, etc. I reckon the Reds are right at home at Suncorp, AND with a little luck going their way they can crack the 20k.

We need to stop thinking small and view our age as a smaller "venue/suburban" ground game. the WC 2027 and Lions tour is around the corner. We need to start building now.

The Tahs had 7k at Leichhardt and hopefully bigger crowds against the kiwis in the next few weeks, BUT the venue sucks, AND next year we will be playing at the brand new stadium, and I am sure fans will turn up if the Tahs keep playing well. Let's not underestimate what years of shit management and coaching did to the brand. I can personally count 8 friends who "support" the Tahs but have not been to a game in years.

 

[dru]

I see your point but the main problem is how are teams meant to survive in a 6 team comp? I would say that teams need at least 10 home games to survive/make a profit

I know that no Super Rugby franchise is setting the world on fire attendance-wise but TT is the way to go. Hopefully next year it will be the proper format.

It's about how you arrange the TT component. Home and away through to domestic finals. Then on to TT "Champion's League". I'd follow that in parallel with the internationals, with a revised NRC/Currie Cup style comp interfacing somehow with the club scene. It should in total provide plenty of games for the franchises.

 

[PhilClinton]

You have to think about sponsors, broadcast partners, etc. I reckon the Reds are right at home at Suncorp, AND with a little luck going their way they can crack the 20k.

The issue is the current regression in numbers and what can we do to combat this. It's not like the Reds are unsuccessful - they won the Super Rugby AU title last year and played in the GF the year before.

The latest Reds membership I held and actually went to every game was 2010 - 2015 and during most of those years I believe they would have cracked 25k easily for most games. The crowds haven't returned post-COVID and the optics for casual fans of 'well there's only 10k at the game, it must be terrible' is hurting them, in my opinion.

 

[Jamie]

The issue is the current regression in numbers and what can we do to combat this. It's not like the Reds are unsuccessful - they won the Super Rugby AU title last year and played in the GF the year before.

The latest Reds membership I held and actually went to every game was 2010 - 2015 and during most of those years I believe they would have cracked 25k easily for most games. The crowds haven't returned post-COVID and the optics for casual fans of 'well there's only 10k at the game, it must be terrible' is hurting them, in my opinion.

You have a point, yet it is very likely that you will get even less at a suburban ground, quoting my mate here "I'm not going to a s..... ground to watch the Tahs lose"

I guess we all have our opinions but the game needs to aim high

 

[liquor box]

I see your point but the main problem is how are teams meant to survive in a 6 team comp? I would say that teams need at least 10 home games to survive/make a profit

I know that no Super Rugby franchise is setting the world on fire attendance-wise but TT is the way to go. Hopefully next year it will be the proper format.

I would have a home and away competition between 5 teams before a final where the winner plays the NZ winner

I would then have another competition with 10 teams, 2 for each super rugby franchise with all games being a double header. eg NSW 1 v QLD 1 and NSW 2 v QLD 2 in NSW and then a return leg later in season with NSW1 v QLD 2 and NSW 2 v QLD 1. If you are not playing another state then you play your other local team on a Friday night. The double headers are Saturday night and Sunday afternoon/evening.

This gives an extended season and keeps local interest.

 

[Adam84]

With money flooding into NZ by selling off part of the AB’s to Private Equity, greater Rugby participation, better pathways and less competition for athletes from competing codes. It’s difficult to see Australian teams competing going forward.

In the last few weeks guys like FLW (Fergus Lee-Warner), LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Frost, Medrano and Simone have all confirmed they’re leaving Australia. These are the guys critical to Aussie Super Rugby performances going forward.

While kiwi fans might enjoy watching their teams beat Aussie teams and sick of just playing each other, it does nothing for me. Watching the Aussie teams lose routinely is killing Australian rugby.

That’s why this Super Rugby Pacific concept is flawed, these derbies don’t mean much if the Aussie teams aren’t going to be there at the pointy end of the season. It has devalued the Aussie local derbies which actually held value last year, and that engaged the fans.

it’s not a ‘competition’ if the results are predictable and blowout scores.

 

[Rebel man]

With money flooding into NZ by selling off part of the AB’s to Private Equity, greater Rugby participation, better pathways and less competition for athletes from competing codes. It’s difficult to see Australian teams competing going forward.

In the last few weeks guys like FLW (Fergus Lee-Warner), LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Frost, Medrano and Simone have all confirmed they’re leaving Australia. These are the guys critical to Aussie Super Rugby performances going forward.

While kiwi fans might enjoy watching their teams beat Aussie teams and sick of just playing each other, it does nothing for me. Watching the Aussie teams lose routinely is killing Australian rugby.

That’s why this Super Rugby Pacific concept is flawed, these derbies don’t mean much if the Aussie teams aren’t going to be there at the pointy end of the season. It has devalued the Aussie local derbies which actually held value last year, and that engaged the fans.

it’s not a ‘competition’ if the results are predictable and blowout scores.

To be fair Aus will finalise their PE deal after the two world cups become official in May

RL is aiming to up its presence in NZ with the South Island being looked at for the 18th NRL team.

If the Auckland city council gets the western springs redevelopment done then they will look to grow the presence of the AFL in the city with St Kilda still having a contract to play H&A games there

 

[hoggy]

You have a point, yet it is very likely that you will get even less at a suburban ground, quoting my mate here "I'm not going to a s..... ground to watch the Tahs lose"

I guess we all have our opinions but the game needs to aim high

The issue is the game has been aiming high since the start of Super rugby, remember it was supposed to take over the world. The problem you have by this approach is your cost base has to support those aims. Show me the money.

The Lions tour, World cup etc, yes they will bring in the money and then the grassroots will be looked after promises of pots of gold, no warning signs there.

 

[Adam84]

To be fair Aus will finalise their PE deal after the two world cups become official in May

RL is aiming to up its presence in NZ with the South Island being looked at for the 18th NRL team.

If the Auckland city council gets the western springs redevelopment done then they will look to grow the presence of the AFL in the city with St Kilda still having a contract to play H&A games there

apples and oranges.

RA won’t get anything near NZ value. All Blacks brand is worth significantly more reflected in the size of sponsorships signed. NZRU already earn more then RA without PE injection.

NRL might be aiming for a presence, but it’s nothing compared to what exists in Brisbane in Sydney already. Especially with a new NRL team in Brisbane.

 

[Ignoto]

You have a point, yet it is very likely that you will get even less at a suburban ground, quoting my mate here "I'm not going to a s..... ground to watch the Tahs lose"

I guess we all have our opinions but the game needs to aim high

Inversely, I get mates who push back on going to Suncorp because drinks/food there cost an arm and a leg.

I reckon you could go back 20 years ago when Suncorp was finished being built and the only new beer they've started serving is Great Northern......

 

[PhilClinton]

Inversely, I get mates who push back on going to Suncorp because drinks/food there cost an arm and a leg.

I reckon you could go back 20 years ago when Suncorp was finished being built and the only new beer they've started serving is Great Northern......

Yep, but this is mostly an issue with the QLD government and what they allow to be served.

I've wondered for years why they don't just change the maximum service of alcohol to two drinks per person and be able to sell a wider variety of full strength beers. Paying $9.80 or whatever it is for a schooner of Gold is downright un-Australian.

 

[Dan54]

With money flooding into NZ by selling off part of the AB’s to Private Equity, greater Rugby participation, better pathways and less competition for athletes from competing codes. It’s difficult to see Australian teams competing going forward.

In the last few weeks guys like Fergus Lee-Warner, Lukan Salakaia-Loto, Frost, Medrano and Simone have all confirmed they’re leaving Australia. These are the guys critical to Aussie Super Rugby performances going forward.

While kiwi fans might enjoy watching their teams beat Aussie teams and sick of just playing each other, it does nothing for me. Watching the Aussie teams lose routinely is killing Australian rugby.

That’s why this Super Rugby Pacific concept is flawed, these derbies don’t mean much if the Aussie teams aren’t going to be there at the pointy end of the season. It has devalued the Aussie local derbies which actually held value last year, and that engaged the fans.

it’s not a ‘competition’ if the results are predictable and blowout scores.

Still what do you do? Noone genuinely thinks anyone but Reds or Brumbies can win Aus Super anyway. Unfortunately I not sure what Aus should do, well that is palatable to fans anyway. I still believe Reds and/or Brumbies will take it to any kiwi teams, and can win it.
Players going off shore is as big a problem in NZ if not worse (I don't even try to keep up anymore), as well as having NRL taking players.

 

[Adam84]

Still what do you do? Noone genuinely thinks anyone but Reds or Brumbies can win Aus Super anyway. Unfortunately I not sure what Aus should do, well that is palatable to fans anyway. I still believe Reds and/or Brumbies will take it to any kiwi teams, and can win it.
Players going off shore is as big a problem in NZ if not worse (I don't even try to keep up anymore), as well as having NRL taking players.

two options;

1) structure super rugby with a single body overarching with all teams on an even playing field, this includes but isn’t limited to a fair salary cap, equitable player distribution and revenue sharing agreements which see all teams evenly funded and resourced to a level which ensures a competitive competition.

2) Bring back Super Rugby AU as the primary domestic comp and make ‘Super Rugby’ a short champions league featuring Japan teams after domestic tournaments are run.

 

[Dan54]

two options;

1) structure super rugby with a single body overarching with all teams on an even playing field, this includes but isn’t limited to a fair salary cap, equitable player distribution and revenue sharing agreements which see all teams evenly funded and resourced to a level which ensures a competitive competition.

2) Bring back Super Rugby AU as the primary domestic comp and make ‘Super Rugby’ a short champions league featuring Japan teams after domestic tournaments are run.

Yep, but reason both ideas won't work unfortunately, as there already a salary cap, player distribution is up to each country as they are the ones who probably contract players, and can't see Crusaders or anyone wanting to spend money on development for others, and isn't revenue from comp already shared equally by SANZAAR or whover runs comp. If Twiggy or someone pays more to sponsor say WF, why should they be penalised?
And as for Super AU followed by champion's league with Japanese clubs? That is asking Japan to then to want to join comp. And I fully believe that 5 team comps have already palled as shown by viewing figure in Aus? But still all ideas that can be thrown around, and gets away from unpalatable ideas that are not really ever going to probaby not going to work now anyway. Add to that having Super Au hasn't obviously done a lot to stop players heading offshore, so even that comp would get diluted even more if RA don't get their finances sorted, a 5 team comp stripped of quality players is going to be even worse for helping the game grow in Aus.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I would have a home and away competition between 5 teams before a final where the winner plays the NZ winner

I would then have another competition with 10 teams, 2 for each super rugby franchise with all games being a double header. eg NSW 1 v QLD 1 and NSW 2 v QLD 2 in NSW and then a return leg later in season with NSW1 v QLD 2 and NSW 2 v QLD 1. If you are not playing another state then you play your other local team on a Friday night. The double headers are Saturday night and Sunday afternoon/evening.

This gives an extended season and keeps local interest.

With money flooding into NZ by selling off part of the AB’s to Private Equity, greater Rugby participation, better pathways and less competition for athletes from competing codes. It’s difficult to see Australian teams competing going forward.

In the last few weeks guys like Fergus Lee-Warner, Lukan Salakaia-Loto, Frost, Medrano and Simone have all confirmed they’re leaving Australia. These are the guys critical to Aussie Super Rugby performances going forward.

While kiwi fans might enjoy watching their teams beat Aussie teams and sick of just playing each other, it does nothing for me. Watching the Aussie teams lose routinely is killing Australian rugby.

That’s why this Super Rugby Pacific concept is flawed, these derbies don’t mean much if the Aussie teams aren’t going to be there at the pointy end of the season. It has devalued the Aussie local derbies which actually held value last year, and that engaged the fans.

it’s not a ‘competition’ if the results are predictable and blowout scores.

Yep but really everyone knows this but yet RA seem incapable together with NzRU (ie better super rugby pacific competition framework) or separately (ie another competition option eg own domestic competition. At least in the short term, but I also might be giving either organisation too much credit to have a long term plan to watch the elephant in the room.

Surely both parties don’t see this as long term answer with current super rugby product. From a RA perspective I assume they are biding time for a few other funding catalysts to happen to give them other options (eg PE deal, lions tour, rugby World Cup etc).

 

[Dan54]

I would guess both RA and NZR would like to improve Super (I mean everyone looks for improvement in everything), it's just how it can be improved that is workable. As we have seen even among the few posters on here there is no real agreement on best comp, and none of us even have to fund it. I think NZR thought bringing in Island teams was going to be a step forward and so worked on that, but I sure the idea of Japan teams joining in some form has been talked about, but that is assuming Japan want to join in any form , and not sure if they would. So to give space to both rugby boards, they can only work with what we have, which is limited teams and money, and population to fund it?

 

[Dan54]

Is it Drua/Brumbies on channel 9 this week?