Broadcast options for Australian Rugby

[Adam84]

Yep, all this international support of the All Blacks is why they were able to sell the AB’s off to PE for such a high price, and why their sponsorship, revenue will continue to eclipse the Wallabies by a significant margin.

This imbalance in revenue at RA/NZRU flows down through super rugby as well and a further reason that’s it’s not an even playing field and not a healthy competition.

Fans aren’t going to watch their teams continually lose, so either NZRU/RA work out a way to make the competition equal, or Australia revert to its own domestic tournament

 

[Jamie]

Hi All,

Lot's of discussion around crowds, just to put things into perpecetive

Leinster captain Sexton kicked the other eight points, but Carty’s second penalty just before the interval pleased most of 8,129 sell-out crowd.

 

[Dan54]

Yep, all this international support of the All Blacks is why they were able to sell the AB’s off to private equity for such a high price, and why their sponsorship, revenue will continue to eclipse the Wallabies by a significant margin.

This imbalance in revenue at Rugby Australia/NZRU flows down through super rugby as well and a further reason that’s it’s not an even playing field and not a healthy competition.

Fans aren’t going to watch their teams continually lose, so either NZRU/Rugby Australia work out a way to make the competition equal, or Australia revert to its own domestic tournament

Thats quite good bait, sold off All Blacks?
Look nothing is easy, RA continues to let players wander off overseas, and reverting to own domestic comp ain't going to help at all. The way things are going Aus will end up with players in Wallaby squad, and lose most of next level of players, and will stuff up just a domestic comp. Unless you can tell me of a successful 5 team comp in rugby (probably any domestic sport) it will only worsen. Rebels fans have to watch their team (and Force ) continually lose even in Aus comp, seems that not a probem? And we all know the problems Aus rugby has, and it's not going to be helped by your seemingly strange idea of NZR handing money or players to RA so they got same amount.
And for the idea of NZ players strengthing Aus super teams, anyone want to see what everyone thought of French clubs etc importing players and blocking the way for their young ones coming into their teams? Or is it not ok there but ok here.
We all kmow the only thing that will really fix the problem, but it's too unpopular.

 

[Dan54]

Hi All,

Lot's of discussion around crowds, just to put things into perpecetive

Leinster captain Sexton kicked the other eight points, but Carty’s second penalty just before the interval pleased most of 8,129 sell-out crowd.

Yep is a good point, but also note that Galway where games is played is a city of 80,000? So 10% of population which is not too bad all things considered.

 

[kiap]

reverting to own domestic comp ain't going to help at all.

A successful pro comp, with sufficient Aus control, is fundamental. We don't have it with Soup and it's not fitting the bill. If it doesn't work, stop doing it. Simple.

The fork in the road is coming and TBH, splitting (the bulk of) the pro season away from NZ could be RA's best move in 25 years. Done right, we can grow it. Australia will have 30 million people before the decade is out.

N.B. my model is not one that excludes playing NZ teams. I'd still like to see 25+ TT games a season (hey, call it Super Rugby Pasific if you want) ... but at the back end after our own controlled league.

Unless you can tell me of a successful 5 team comp in rugby (probably any domestic sport) it will only worsen.

Would need minimum 6 teams (I'd make Drua one). Longer term, potentially 8.

And for the idea of NZ players strengthing Aus super teams

They already do. Well, NZ and Pasifika-born via NZ (e.g. Tongan Thor). A proportion become Aus players.

 

[Jamie]

Yep is a good point, but also note that Galway where games is played is a city of 80,000? So 10% of population which is not too bad all things considered.

I see, yep. Good turnout. But in saying this, I think there a quite a few games in Europe that have crowds of 8 - 10 -14K (I could be wrong, just looking at the stadium capacity and the crowds)

It is easy to pick on our teams for not bringing the numbers at the moment.

 

[Adam84]

, Rugby Australia continues to let players wander off overseas,

it’s called money, or lack thereof

. The way things are going Aus will end up with players in Wallaby squad, and lose most of next level of players, and will stuff up just a domestic comp. .

Again.. it’s called money.. And what you’ve said already exists now under Super Rugby Pacific, except the losing margins against the kiwis are magnified..

it's not going to be helped by your seemingly strange idea of NZR handing money or players to Rugby Australia so they got same amount.

I dunno, you’ve made the point twice now that retention is an issue. So money would surely help…..

We all kmow the only thing that will really fix the problem, but it's too unpopular.

not even going to address this comment

Thats quite good bait, sold off All Blacks?

oh sorry, sold off part* of the All Blacks.. happy now?

 

[Tomikin]

it’s called money, or lack thereof


Again.. it’s called money.. And what you’ve said already exists now under Super Rugby Pacific, except the losing margins against the kiwis are magnified..


I dunno, you’ve made the point twice now that retention is an issue. So money would surely help…..


not even going to address this comment


oh sorry, sold off part* of the All Blacks.. happy now?

You know arguing with Dan's pointless. Because he knows if we went our own way I'd fuck kiwi rugby..

We on the otherhand over the next ten years could grow from 5 (6) to 8 to 10 teams if done correctly. Throw in Lions and a Home world cup.
Itd be a risk too do it but probably a risk not too. If we had more opportunities for professional players we could lure more players who end up in league too our game... See with out the opportunity they go elsewhere e.g league..

I'm not against playing kiwis or super Pacific per say, just it's limiting what we can do when tied to NZ Rugby

 

[Dan54]

it’s called money, or lack thereof


Again.. it’s called money.. And what you’ve said already exists now under Super Rugby Pacific, except the losing margins against the kiwis are magnified..


I dunno, you’ve made the point twice now that retention is an issue. So money would surely help…..


not even going to address this comment


oh sorry, sold off part* of the All Blacks.. happy now?

Yep and you have seen problem, NZR should not ever consider putting money to RA teams, when there is grassroots rugby here to take care of, lack of money is like in real life, noone learns how to budget if they got someone giving them a handout.
I sure money woulod help with retention, you going to have a bloody sight less money with a domestic comp of 5 teams, but I sure you really know that anyway, so I guessing you just doing a wind up.
I know you won't address the elephant in room, RA (and I can see why) wants/needs to keep 5 teams, and I still believe when they cut a team which they needed to do because they couldn't afford to have 5 they just chose the wrong team to cut anyway.
I agree RA needs more money to be able to keep players below test level, but to be honest, but to be honest I will say again it amazes me beyond belief you saying NZR should be giving them handouts, and ignore their own needs.
NZR (and I would hope RA) has as part of their charter that they are there to run and promote NZ rugby, and I would imane if they even considered giving RA handouts they would probably end up in court from grassroots rugby in NZ.

 

[Dan54]

You know arguing with Dan's pointless. Because he knows if we went our own way I'd fuck kiwi rugby..

We on the otherhand over the next ten years could grow from 5 (6) to 8 to 10 teams if done correctly. Throw in Lions and a Home world cup.
Itd be a risk too do it but probably a risk not too. If we had more opportunities for professional players we could lure more players who end up in league too our game... See with out the opportunity they go elsewhere e.g league..

I'm not against playing kiwis or super Pacific per say, just it's limiting what we can do when tied to NZ Rugby

FFS you not tied to NZ rugby, it's Sanzaar that runs it, not NZR. And if you think it would f*** NZ rugby and not Aussie rugby too, you really are living in a dream world. I always said NZ and Aus need each other, just both need to stand on own feet!

Anyway enough of this, we meant to be discussing Broadcast options for Aus rugby on this thread. And we were discussing why numbers perhaps are struggling a bit this year, I thought and still do it's too much of same thing with 5-6 teams, and somehow it became NZR's fault.
Really it would help if each week Reds, Brumbies os Tahs were on FTA? Do they get bigest viewership? Not sure about Force, they seemed I haven't really seen figures from their games last year or so, though they tend to have reasonable crowds.

 

[Adam84]

Yep and you have seen problem, NZR should not ever consider putting money to Rugby Australia teams, when there is grassroots rugby here to take care of, lack of money is like in real life, noone learns how to budget if they got someone giving them a handout.
I sure money woulod help with retention, you going to have a bloody sight less money with a domestic comp of 5 teams, but I sure you really know that anyway, so I guessing you just doing a wind up.
I know you won't address the elephant in room, Rugby Australia (and I can see why) wants/needs to keep 5 teams, and I still believe when they cut a team which they needed to do because they couldn't afford to have 5 they just chose the wrong team to cut anyway.
I agree Rugby Australia needs more money to be able to keep players below test level, but to be honest, but to be honest I will say again it amazes me beyond belief you saying NZR should be giving them handouts, and ignore their own needs.
NZR (and I would hope Rugby Australia) has as part of their charter that they are there to run and promote NZ rugby, and I would imane if they even considered giving Rugby Australia handouts they would probably end up in court from grassroots rugby in NZ.

I really think this is a naïve and short sighted view, considering the alternatives.

NRL invest in NZ and then use the money from additional broadcast rights generated there to redistribute across all teams in the NRL. AFL invest heavily in QLD and NSW to grow the game and supporter base which in turn leads to greater revenue for the existing clubs.

A healthy Super Rugby competition with a revenue sharing agreement sees NZ teams benefit from growth in Australia as well, which has significantly more growth potential then NZ. But attitudes like this will see that fail to eventuate.

 

[Tomikin]

FFS you not tied to NZ rugby, it's Sanzaar that runs it, not NZR. And if you think it would f*** NZ rugby and not Aussie rugby too, you really are living in a dream world. I always said NZ and Aus need each other, just both need to stand on own feet!

Anyway enough of this, we meant to be discussing Broadcast options for Aus rugby on this thread. And we were discussing why numbers perhaps are struggling a bit this year, I thought and still do it's too much of same thing with 5-6 teams, and somehow it became NZR's fault.
Really it would help if each week Reds, Brumbies os Tahs were on FTA? Do they get bigest viewership? Not sure about Force, they seemed I haven't really seen figures from their games last year or so, though they tend to have reasonable crowds.

Let's leave that for the moment.. I think viewership is down because currently it means nothing these games, once we see it get closer to the finals we will start to see more excitement as long as we have uncertainty of outcome, and results start to matter... Let's just hope in super round the kiwi teams don't thump us all as it be a death knell for the competition.. if we can get two possible 3 wins it make for much more interesting comp..

 

[Adam84]

You know arguing with Dan's pointless. Because he knows if we went our own way I'd fuck kiwi rugby..

We on the otherhand over the next ten years could grow from 5 (6) to 8 to 10 teams if done correctly. Throw in Lions and a Home world cup.
Itd be a risk too do it but probably a risk not too. If we had more opportunities for professional players we could lure more players who end up in league too our game... See with out the opportunity they go elsewhere e.g league..

I'm not against playing kiwis or super Pacific per say, just it's limiting what we can do when tied to NZ Rugby

Yeah noted.

It would be good to see Aus and NZ work in partnership for growth of the game in the region.

but if not, hope to see RA leverage the ‘golden decade’ of rugby to reset the domestic game and establish a new sustainable structure to go forward with. Won’t have a better opportunity then the next 10 years to do that.

 

[Adam84]

Let's leave that for the moment.. I think viewership is down because currently it means nothing these games, once we see it get closer to the finals we will start to see more excitement as long as we have uncertainty of outcome, and results start to matter... Let's just hope in super round the kiwi teams don't thump us all as it be a death knell for the competition.. if we can get two possible 3 wins it make for much more interesting comp..

Yeah absolutely, the derbies seem largely irrelevant this year as the TT will establish the true finals candidates.

 

[Tomikin]

Yeah noted.

It would be good to see Aus and NZ work in partnership for growth of the game in the region.

but if not, hope to see Rugby Australia leverage the ‘golden decade’ of rugby to reset the domestic game and establish a new sustainable structure to go forward with. Won’t have a better opportunity then the next 10 years to do that.

Yeah I think we will never get enough traction nationwide if we can't grow out team base.. 5 teams ain't enough to give opportunity to all the youngsters. We may have to take a hot in the short term on quality to grow the base of selection... Uncertainty of outcome is the only thing that really matter in a competition and if we keep getting kicked were fucked.. image league or AFL if no Australia team won for 6 years.. errghhh

 

[Dan54]

Let's leave that for the moment.. I think viewership is down because currently it means nothing these games, once we see it get closer to the finals we will start to see more excitement as long as we have uncertainty of outcome, and results start to matter... Let's just hope in super round the kiwi teams don't thump us all as it be a death knell for the competition.. if we can get two possible 3 wins it make for much more interesting comp..

I still think Aus teams will win a few games against NZ teams, I still think the likes of Brumbies and Reds will be bloody hard to beat. And that is what I have said all year. I feel I am more npositive about Aus teams than most of you buggers. And I agree there will be more interest even here in NZ ,when I say it is struggling because of lack of team numbers, I think it happening here too.

 

[Dan54]

Yeah I think we will never get enough traction nationwide if we can't grow out team base.. 5 teams ain't enough to give opportunity to all the youngsters. We may have to take a hot in the short term on quality to grow the base of selection... Uncertainty of outcome is the only thing that really matter in a competition and if we keep getting kicked were fucked.. image league or AFL if no Australia team won for 6 years.. errghhh

NRC, NRC is the place to start! NRL?? How long has it been since a NZ team won? And don't tell me our league supporters are better than Aus rugby supporters! Mind you NRL is just a board that runs comp like Sanzaar isn't it, and I don't think ARL give any money to Warriors!

 

[Adam84]

Mind you NRL is just a board that runs comp like Sanzaar isn't it, and I don't think ARL give any money to Warriors!

thats not true, ARLC govern the NRL and give the Warriors over $14million a year, in addition to ARLC funding a number of NZRL development programs.


NZRL CEO Greg Peters said the “ARLC's investment in New Zealand would not only produce talent for the NRL but also help to grow the international game”.

"The ARLC have provided funding in the past but it has significantly increased this year and there is a greater recognition of New Zealand's place in the development pathway, which we are grateful for," Peters said.

 

[Rebel man]

Got a free trial with Kayo to watch the F1 & Champions Cup and they've put rugby after Rodeo, Poker, Rowing & Lawn Balls. But we're before softball, so that's nice.

Rugby held a lot more prominence when they held the rights

 

[Rebel man]

Thats quite good bait, sold off All Blacks?
Look nothing is easy, Rugby Australia continues to let players wander off overseas, and reverting to own domestic comp ain't going to help at all. The way things are going Aus will end up with players in Wallaby squad, and lose most of next level of players, and will stuff up just a domestic comp. Unless you can tell me of a successful 5 team comp in rugby (probably any domestic sport) it will only worsen. Rebels fans have to watch their team (and Force ) continually lose even in Aus comp, seems that not a probem? And we all know the problems Aus rugby has, and it's not going to be helped by your seemingly strange idea of NZR handing money or players to Rugby Australia so they got same amount.
And for the idea of NZ players strengthing Aus super teams, anyone want to see what everyone thought of French clubs etc importing players and blocking the way for their young ones coming into their teams? Or is it not ok there but ok here.
We all kmow the only thing that will really fix the problem, but it's too unpopular.

Just like all the NZ sides constantly lose to the Crusaders