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Bledisloe 2 - Saturday 25th August 2018 - Eden Park, Auckland

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Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
At the moment he isn't held accountable when he does the selections. What's the difference?
How exactly do you hold the head coach accountable besides sacking him? Send him to bed without dinner?

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Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
At the moment he isn't held accountable when he does the selections. What's the difference?

I think that one of the main reasons for this is that there is no obvious successor in waiting. Just like a player who isn't really being challenged for his position, so it goes with the coach.

If there was a highly credentialled Australian coach with proven success at professional level who was available, then I think that Cheika would be under far more pressure.
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
I think that one of the main reasons for this is that there is no obvious successor in waiting. Just like a player who isn't really being challenged for his position, so it goes with the coach.

If there was a highly credentialled Australian coach with proven success at professional level who was available, then I think that Cheika would be under far more pressure.

Well we do have a few of those in past coaches who I guess would be happily involved in the selection process. No doubt they all keep abreast of what is happening in Australian and world rugby. They would not need to be present at every game, especially those OS. They could have a phone conference with Cheiks prior to every squad and team selection. The coach of course would have the final say but they would bring a different perspective, sometimes one that Cheika might not see because he is too closely involved. Cant see the forrest for the trees sort of thing.
It just makes sense. Of course the head coach remains ultimately responsible for results. The idea is to support him, not to cause him to fail.
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
BTW, Australian rugby and their fan base have a knack of expelling coaches in a spectacular bridge burning fashion.
 
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Namerican

Bill Watson (15)
I reckon the big ball running number 8 is a bit of a myth. There are only a handful of players that can bust a defence in tight like that these days. Defences are too good.

Half the time a loose forward looks good with ball in hand he gets accused of sea-gulling anyway. I don't really get it.

Kieran Read is basically perfect as a modern 8. He can do everything and can do it well. Doesn't have to be Vunipola sized to be an effective runner.
 

Jerry West

Sydney Middleton (9)
I don't get the Pete Samu love, he is solid at best

My reasons:

1. Pooper experiment isn’t effective enough at the breakdown to keep pursuing with
2. Another genuine option at L/O time can only help us secure ball in this match
3. Samu has probably been given next to no chance yet of serious game time in a test match. He’s got more match fitness atm than Hooper so why not use that?
4. 23 is what’s needed to win, having Hooper as impact would be like having A. Savea on the bench for the AB’s. Massive ball of energy can turn the momentum in the big moments late in the game. Just because he isn’t a starter doesn’t mean he isn’t good.
5. Only for the Auckland Test, not permanent
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
My reasons:

1. Pooper experiment isn’t effective enough at the breakdown to keep pursuing with
2. Another genuine option at L/O time can only help us secure ball in this match
3. Samu has probably been given next to no chance yet of serious game time in a test match. He’s got more match fitness atm than Hooper so why not use that?
4. 23 is what’s needed to win, having Hooper as impact would be like having A. Savea on the bench for the AB’s. Massive ball of energy can turn the momentum in the big moments late in the game. Just because he isn’t a starter doesn’t mean he isn’t good.
5. Only for the Auckland Test, not permanent


Samu is another hybrid 6/7/8 whose individual efforts aren't as good as Hooper's.

Now if Naserani was available I could see a viable 8 option that would be another story
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Kieran Read is basically perfect as a modern 8. He can do everything and can do it well. Doesn't have to be Vunipola sized to be an effective runner.
Most of his running is in the loose though. He looks great coming back at a broken defence but is pretty much just an like any other player when hitting it up against a set defence.
 

A mutterer

Chilla Wilson (44)
My reasons:

1. Pooper experiment isn’t effective enough at the breakdown to keep pursuing with
2. Another genuine option at L/O time can only help us secure ball in this match
3. Samu has probably been given next to no chance yet of serious game time in a test match. He’s got more match fitness atm than Hooper so why not use that?
4. 23 is what’s needed to win, having Hooper as impact would be like having A. Savea on the bench for the AB’s. Massive ball of energy can turn the momentum in the big moments late in the game. Just because he isn’t a starter doesn’t mean he isn’t good.
5. Only for the Auckland Test, not permanent

I think it's more that one of the locks and the 6/8 aren't bringing the goods. Hooper is making the tackle, pocock the lone jackal with a couple of lazy or out of position forwards not shifting mass or putting in a solid clean out.

Pity really that after a couple of years our locking combo is still not nailed down like the ab's.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Who plays 13 if you move Hodge to 15? That seems the most unlikely change to happen. I can't see Meakes debuting at 13 when he is normally a 12.

What exactly did To'omua do to suggest things will go better with him starting?

Anyway, 10/12/13 shouldn't change for this Saturday and they won't change.

Given the squad available, I think it would have to be Meakes to 13. DHP might be an option but he looked completely underdone last weekend. The absence of Rona or English in the squad is a selection problem, not mine.

I believe that, except for the period Matt was suffering a spate of head injuries, he was a far more accomplished player than BF, whether at 10 or 12. In combination with Quade Cooper at 10, he was perhaps the stand out performer in the 12 spot in recent years. I think Beale is a similar player to Cooper with an attacking, off the cuff style of play predominant. It is the combination of Beale with To'omua that I would like to see tested. We know what BF brings, and it's not enough to get us consistent wins against other top level test sides. Immediately, the defense will be tighter with To'omua in place of Foley, the kicking game will be more effective with both Beale and To'omua taking the tactical kicks and Hodge the pressure relieving kicks from the danger zone.

I do not think there is any chance at all that the changes I'd like to see will happen for Bledisloe 2. The same 10/12/13 will no doubt be repeated. But, my question is, what happens then if we have the same or similar result as Bledisloe 1? When will it be time to try something different? Or will it be the case that it is too close to the RWC to change horses in midstream?

My thoughts are that changes should have been tried last year, at that time with Cooper in place of Foley for at least some starts to see if the alternative had any legs. It is the reluctance of the coaches to test options in weaker areas of the Wallabies that I question. Anyway, the Cooper horse has bolted, so imo this Rc has to see some other options and combinations tried if the results don't dramatically improve in the next test or two.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
It's his full time job though. Between him and his assistants I would be very surprised if they aren't watching every Aussie game each week and also analysis of those games.

They are obviously also at all the training sessions.

Unless a selection panel is fully engaged it just ends up being a design by committee situation.

The risk is that we'd end up with a camel, but atm we only have a donkey anyway. I am sure that I've seen Cheika quoted on occasions saying (admitting) that he doesn't get to see much of the players from the outlying franchises and that he is more familiar with the NSW and maybe Qld players.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I think we will see Beale at 15 and To'omua at 12. Beale can drop in and out from 15 but can struggle under the high ball (but they all do when compared from Folau) so DHP is likely be on the wing

Or DHP at 15 and a winger brought in

Tirinui suggests picking the wingers with jet shoes on dry tracks.

I still think we will do better, but go down by 20+
 

Bandar

Bob Loudon (25)
The risk is that we'd end up with a camel, but atm we only have a donkey anyway. I am sure that I've seen Cheika quoted on occasions saying (admitting) that he doesn't get to see much of the players from the outlying franchises and that he is more familiar with the NSW and maybe Qld players.


Was that when he was also NSW coach??? I reckon it wouldn't be the case now, but I could be wrong.
 
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