Bledisloe 2 - Saturday 25th August 2018 - Eden Park, Auckland

[waiopehu oldboy]

From what I've read the general consensus seems to be that the players appeared overworked prior to the test as opposed to lack of conditioning.

Are there any stats for Super Rugby minutes played by Wob forwards c.f. AB? I remember someone putting them up either last year or maybe 2016 & the difference was astounding, if there's a similar disparity this year that would certainly explain the overworked theory & probably put the Super Rugby S&C dep'ts in the frame more so than the Wob.

EDIT: thought I'd share a sign that our Dep't of Conservation have been putting up in certain parts of the country including, I think, Waiheke Island:

Nothing sinister intended, it's just that back in the day someone imported some of the little buggers, they inevitably escaped & are now considered an introduced pest species alongside the possum, stoats & weasels, etc.

 

[The torpedo]

Cheika does seem more of a man motivator than a tactician.

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Agreed and this is why we need far better assistants than what we have atm.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

View attachment 10221

This would be the go in the avatar bet thread.

Would look quite spiffy as GAGR banner header for a week or so.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^^^ it would, wouldn't it? Sadly though I think any chance of an avatar/ signature bet disappeared over the horizon with Naholo last week......

 

[Brumby Runner]

Are there any stats for Super Rugby minutes played by Wob forwards c.f. AB? I remember someone putting them up either last year or maybe 2016 & the difference was astounding, if there's a similar disparity this year that would certainly explain the overworked theory & probably put the Super Rugby S&C dep'ts in the frame more so than the Wob.

EDIT: thought I'd share a sign that our Dep't of Conservation have been putting up in certain parts of the country including, I think, Waiheke Island:

View attachment 10221

Nothing sinister intended, it's just that back in the day someone imported some of the little buggers, they inevitably escaped & are now considered an introduced pest species alongside the possum, stoats & weasels, etc.

OK, we are the Wallabies, but which teams are the possums, stoats and weasels?

 

[Up the Guts]

Are there any stats for Super Rugby minutes played by Wob forwards c.f. AB? I remember someone putting them up either last year or maybe 2016 & the difference was astounding, if there's a similar disparity this year that would certainly explain the overworked theory & probably put the Super Rugby S&C dep'ts in the frame more so than the Wob.

I think when people were mentioning "overworked" it was more a belief that Cheika was flogging them too hard at training and neglected to taper for the game correctly as opposed to too many Super Rugby minutes. But for what it's worth I think Tom Robertson at least played the most minutes of any Super Rugby loosehead, perhaps other players were similar.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

OK, we are the Wallabies, but which teams are the possums, stoats and weasels?

weasels clearly = Ringinland which would make les Frogs the stoats (Mururoa nuclear testing, Rainbow Warrior sinking, NZ lamb import ban, etc, etc) & Sethfrickens the possums, big, hairy, ugly, noisy fuckers that they are

 

[Strewthcobber]

Surprised we didn't see more of this last week, when we had Folau, as I'm not sure either of the NZ wingers are necessarily that strong in the air. Given that the ABs didn't look that threatening off structured play if we'd set a strong wall with a good kick chase I'm not sure they'd have hurt us too badly on counter either.

I'm a strong believer in never ever kicking to all black wingers

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[Up the Guts]

I'm a strong believer in never ever kicking to all black wingers

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Time gone by I would be with you. I think a contestable kick is a good option now given their current setup, particularly if Folau is in the side.

 

[Derpus]

I think when people were mentioning "overworked" it was more a belief that Cheika was flogging them too hard at training and neglected to taper for the game correctly as opposed to too many Super Rugby minutes. But for what it's worth I think Tom Robertson at least played the most minutes of any Super Rugby loosehead, perhaps other players were similar.

Seems consistent with Tupou picking up a soft tissue injury last training before the match.

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[Quick Hands]

Right now he looks like a guy trying to figure out how to pull a hat out of a rabbit..

 

[Tomikin]

^^^^
Edit/preface: i only read the blurb not the article so my rant may be way off point.

Revolutionary insight 'they are the best because they do the things the goodest.'

It's also wrong. They do have a particular tactical style. They soak up pressure, tactically infringe in their 22 to minimise conceded points and pounce as soon as the opposition inevitably turn the ball over allowing them to attack a broken defence out wide with their super fast and giant Islander backs like Naholo or Savea. Often to utilise this space they'll employ a cross field kick.

It's bullshit to think we were actually in the game at half time. a) they'd already bombed several tries and b) were simply waiting for us to make the inevitable mistakes that allow their style to click. This effect usually snowballs from 60 minutes onwards as their unwitting opposition tire and make more mistakes with the ball.

It's chalk and cheese to, for example, Ireland's possession based tactical approach which involves capitalizing on mistakes made in defence rather than attack. Which is why Ireland were able to beat the ABs. They are super disciplined with the ball in hand to the point where it's actually quite dull to watch. But hell, it works. It's also why Ireland are probably the only team in the world right now with a realistic chance of beating them at the World Cup.

But it also helps that the ABs generally have the best player in the world for each position, and at least two high quality reserves per slot.

Probably should have read the artical.

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[Rugbynutter39]

On that note, I feel this is the time for Growden's article. he's a dick, and made a fool of himself early in the article suggesting he should sacked right now (way too late, we're stuck with them all), but he's pretty on the money here IMO:




Some very salient points in there.

An example was our clearing kicks. I can actually, and i'm not joking, THROW the fucking ball further than Foley kicks it when he clears. Hodge is finally in the team from the beginning, to the point where we could practice BEFORE the game the kick clearance process to iron out any communication errors.

We see Hodge take one clearing kick from behind his tryline and put it out on HALF WAY!

Does he take a single kick after that? For touch either?

I simply cannot fathom how this monstrous advantage was not built into our game plan for the day. What's more likely to be successful, kicking it 50m from our tryline in one go and chasing well, or slowly work it upfield over 15 phases against the fucking All Blacks for 50m?
I know which one takes more energy out of you! No wonder we were rooted by half time and collapsed, we'd spent the whole half bashing our heads against the AB on our own 22!

What's more psychologically sapping - smashing wave after wave of gold jerseys backwards in their own half then counter attacking when they drop it, or being pinned into your own half and IN RANGE OF THAT KICKERS BOOT should you push the boundaries a bit too much and finally get pinged by Peyper?

If anyone can think of any reason why Foley continued to take the kicks over Hodge, i'm all ears as I like to learn about the game and there may be some high level rugby reason behind it, but I can't see one at all and as far as i'm concerned, it's a basic error of coaching that is stupefying to me.

Like lifting Hooper in the lineout instead of any of the fluffybunnys in the team taller than 200cm who are specifically trained to do jump. Or trying the short lineout with 4 men, and then having them all bunched within 3m of each other!?

Fuck me, I wonder where THAT throw is going eh?

I am frustrated personally with the calls for cheika and rest of coaching staff to be sacked as why people expect our ability to be beat the number one team after dreadful performances at super rugby level is beyond me.

Jeremy Paul is right that the cattle more than wallabies coaches are the problem. As despite poor cattle we came very close last year to winning the bledisloe and played superb first half in first game.

I will not support emotional rants saying wallabies coaching staff should be sacked as if compare to super rugby performances we are probably on par or slightly punching above our weight.

To suggest wallabies coaches are main influences on our wallaby players who spend more time playing super rugby is ridiculous.

Stop with the emotional over reaction to losing to the best side in the world and get a reality check on how we are performing in super rugby!


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[Brumby Runner]

What? Four wins by Aus Super Rugby sides over NZ sides this year is an immeasurable improvement on recent years. But otoh the Wallabies haven't improved at all, in fact have regressed as you have pointed out in regards to their results last year. Why should any of the Wallabies' coaching staff be exempted from scrutiny?

 

[ACR]

I think when people were mentioning "overworked" it was more a belief that Cheika was flogging them too hard at training and neglected to taper for the game correctly as opposed to too many Super Rugby minutes. But for what it's worth I think Tom Robertson at least played the most minutes of any Super Rugby loosehead, perhaps other players were similar.

Reference Super Rugby/Club Minutes. I wasted far too much of my time to manually calculate the starting front rows minutes for the year. I did indeed realise it was a pointless endeavour very early on, probably before I started, however like most decisions I make, stupidity's voice (masking as curiosity) was heard. Given that 1 player plays overseas rotating as a sub, 2 of the players were injured for most of the year, and 3 of them play in a side with All Blacks on the bench.. all of this data is, without question, entirely pointless. Enjoy.

1: Tom Robertson

18 games: 1252 minutes​

69.55 minutes per game (mpg)​

2: Tatafu Polota-Nau

14 games: 547 minutes​

39.07 mpg (rotated between starting and sub)​

3: Sekope Kepu

15 games: 948 minutes​

63.2 mpg​

​

1: Joe Moody

5 games: 205 minutes​

41.0 mpg (came off injured after 6 minutes in 1 game)​

2: Codie Taylor

17 games: 1017 minutes​

59.82 mpg​

3: Owen Franks

8 games: 432 minutes​

54.0 mpg​

 

[Up the Guts]

Reference Super Rugby/Club Minutes. I wasted far too much of my time to manually calculate the starting front rows minutes for the year. I did indeed realise it was a pointless endeavour very early on, probably before I started, however like most decisions I make, stupidity's voice (masking as curiosity) was heard. Given that 1 player plays overseas rotating as a sub, 2 of the players were injured for most of the year, and 3 of them play in a side with All Blacks on the bench.. all of this data is, without question, entirely pointless. Enjoy.

Thanks for crunching those numbers, would you mind going to the effort next year before the first Bledislode and sending it to Cheika and co. so they can manage the players better in the lead up?

 

[ACR]

Thanks for crunching those numbers, would you mind going to the effort next year before the first Bledislode and sending it to Cheika and co. so they can manage the players better in the lead up?

Hmm.. who knows? Most of his players have had 5 weeks between their last super rugby game and the first test. He's fighting an uphill battle to get them a) fitter than they are and yet b) match ready c) more skilled than they are d) competitive playing together. Until Rugby Australia revamps the entire bloody system the Wallabies coach is on a hiding to nothing.

 

[dru]

Hmm.. who knows? Most of his players have had 5 weeks between their last super rugby game and the first test. He's fighting an uphill battle to get them a) fitter than they are and yet b) match ready c) more skilled than they are d) competitive playing together. Until Rugby Australia revamps the entire bloody system the Wallabies coach is on a hiding to nothing.

Wrong.

But you hit an interesting thought, yes we should revamp the entire bloody system.

 

[Joe Blow]

Who is the reserve TH at the Tahs? Kepu is getting run into the ground.

 

[ACR]

Who is the reserve TH at the Tahs? Kepu is getting run into the ground.

Paddy Ryan.