Bledisloe 2 - Saturday 25th August 2018 - Eden Park, Auckland

[Brumby Runner]

Well wheel out Toutai Kefu then.

The whole point here is that we don't have a world class number 8. We have a guy who has been decent in his first Super Rugby season that couldn't provide nearly the same impact in the two tests he played.

We're now working with a number 6 who has had a couple of barnstorming games and then a shocker.

The biggest thing Hooper and Pocock provide us is they are consistently amongst our best players.

If we had players of equivalent quality in their positions then I'm all for picking outright specialists in every position but we just don't.

BH we'll never agree on the benefits of playing two 7s, no matter the quality of the individuals. I would have a fit Hooper on the bench, but you will always have him in the starting lineup. That is just the way it is. You can take solace in the fact that Cheika will always see it your way, while I will continue to hurt every time the Wallabies get done like a dinner by any of the other top sides in world rugby.

 

[Braveheart81]

BH we'll never agree on the benefits of playing two 7s, no matter the quality of the individuals. I would have a fit Hooper on the bench, but you will always have him in the starting lineup. That is just the way it is. You can take solace in the fact that Cheika will always see it your way, while I will continue to hurt every time the Wallabies get done like a dinner by any of the other top sides in world rugby.

Have you ever considered that maybe your preferred selections wouldn't provide a better outcome?

Have you ever considered that maybe the reason we lose games against top sides isn't because we had two 7s on the field that many rated our best and third best player last weekend and perhaps some of the other 13 starters need to lift their games?

 

[fatprop]

BH we'll never agree on the benefits of playing two 7s, no matter the quality of the individuals. I would have a fit Hooper on the bench, but you will always have him in the starting lineup. That is just the way it is. You can take solace in the fact that Cheika will always see it your way, while I will continue to hurt every time the Wallabies get done like a dinner by any of the other top sides in world rugby.

We are going to play both Hooper and Pocock in the backrow, they are the best two backrowers in the country by daylight.

 

[Sully]

NZHurld reporting that temp seating has been added, increasing capacity to ~48500. I'll be interested to see how full the place is at 5 PM when the women run out. Lots of talk about how they deserve better than what they've had in the past (no argument from me on that) so here's a perfect opportunity for those people to put their $ & bums where their mouths are.

Simple fix for that. Put the woman's game on last.

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[KOB1987]

We are going to play both Hooper and Pocock in the backrow, they are the best two backrowers in the country by daylight.

That's the pertinent point. Pocock's flaws are few, Hooper a few more. Not one player who has been tried in the 3rd back row spot in the post Palu/Fardy era outside McMahon & Dempsey (both unavailable) have got the widespread tick of approval.
- Hanigan
- Timu
- Tui
- Timani
- Samu

Of all those Hanigan has probably been the most rounded without being outstanding and I can see a case to recall him into the 6 jersey this week, especially with the pear shaped lineout we had on the weekend. It's hard enough trying to fill one vacant back row spot with the current personnel let alone compounding the issue by dropping Hooper. It won't happen.

 

[Braveheart81]

Even McMahon and Dempsey only excelled in fits and starts. McMahon has been the most consistent.

 

[Sully]

The only reason I would choose Foley to kick ahead of Hodge is the speed he gets it away. Hodge definitely kicks it farther bit in my opinion takes longer to kick. This can be fixed and covered for easily and I can't see why it wouldn't be the norm for him to kick.
As for the kicks for touch? Who knows?

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[Derpus]

That's the pertinent point. Pocock's flaws are few, Hooper a few more. Not one player who has been tried in the 3rd back row spot in the post Palu era outside McMahon & Dempsey (both unavailable) have got the widespread tick of approval.
- Hanigan
- Timu
- Tui
- Timani
- Samu

Of all those Hanigan has probably been the most rounded without being outstanding and I can see a case to recall him into the 6 jersey this week, especially with the pear shaped lineout we had on the weekend.

I'd just stick with Tui, he's still had more good games than bad and the lineout options seemed to stem from catastrophically misguided tactical decisions like throwing in to a diagonal lineout etc.

I have 0 idea why the scrum failed though. Seriously, where did that come from? Robertson and Kepu have been fine all year without being amazing and they both fronted up fine against Ireland who are strong scrummagers.

That being said i think the set piece really collapsed wholesale when substitutions were made. Ainsley should not be a capped test player, and Latu had little to no impact around the ground and an incredibly poor game at the lineout. So hopefully if we can bring some better players onto the bench we won't shit the bed quite so badly.

Slipper ought to be called up if Sio & Tupou remain unfit.

 

[The torpedo]

NZHurld reporting that temp seating has been added, increasing capacity to ~48500. I'll be interested to see how full the place is at 5 PM when the women run out. Lots of talk about how they deserve better than what they've had in the past (no argument from me on that) so here's a perfect opportunity for those people to put their $ & bums where their mouths are.

Isn't Eden Park 60,000 seated capacity?

Are they doing upgrades?

 

[KiwiM]

Isn't Eden Park 60,000 seated capacity?

Are they doing upgrades?

No and No.

Eden Park's capacity for the RWC 2011 was increased to 60k with a lot of temporary seating installed.

The standard capacity now is about 48,500 (even with some small additional seating).

 

[Quick Hands]

We are going to play both Hooper and Pocock in the backrow, they are the best two backrowers in the country by daylight.

And let's face it, the back row isn't our problem.

 

[Braveheart81]

And let's face it, the back row isn't our problem.

It does kind of amaze me that people continue to go back to this when we lose regardless of how well they both play.

Our tight five were awful, our backs coughed up the ball a couple of times leading directly to tries yet because we picked two 7s they somehow have to be the reason why we lost.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

No and No.

Eden Park's capacity for the RWC 2011 was increased to 60k with a lot of temporary seating installed.

The standard capacity now is about 48,500 (even with some small additional seating).

I'm somewhat stunned that EPNA didn't take out an injunction against the temp seating going up.........

 

[Derpus]

It does kind of amaze me that people continue to go back to this when we lose regardless of how well they both play.

Our tight five were awful, our backs coughed up the ball a couple of times leading directly to tries yet because we picked two 7s they somehow have to be the reason why we lost.

Don't forget Foley.

 

[dru]

It does kind of amaze me that people continue to go back to this when we lose regardless of how well they both play.

Our tight five were awful, our backs coughed up the ball a couple of times leading directly to tries yet because we picked two 7s they somehow have to be the reason why we lost.

Yep, tight 5 were the issue in numerous different areas. About all you can say about the Pooper was
a) Hooper was not match ready so an opportunity to try something different was missed. Not a key issue by any means
b) the double 7 DOES compound line out issues - again in this case those issues never came to light due to more fundamental problems
c) I don't like Hooper defending at 2 in the line out

Primarily and fundamentally our issues started with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. In multiple areas of the game.

 

[dru]

Don't forget Foley.

Yep. Kafer: "He's 5m too deep". ofc he's 5m deeper. The set piece and rucks are going backwards by 5. Thought Foley did some really good D. Pigs need to learn to protect him and better go fricken forward.

 

[tragic]

We are going to play both Hooper and Pocock in the backrow, they are the best two sevens in the country by daylight.

Fixed.
Therein lies the difference.
Those opposing playing both at once feel that the lack of balance in the back row and the impact on other facets of play eg the lineout outweighs the benefit of having both on the field.
You obviously feel differently.
I can see logic behind both arguments.
We'll know soon enough as they'll both get selected again.

 

[dru]

Fixed.
Therein lies the difference.
Those opposing playing both at once feel that the lack of balance in the back row and the impact on other facets of play eg the lineout outweighs the benefit of having both on the field.
You obviously feel differently.
I can see logic behind both arguments.
We'll know soon enough as they'll both get selected again.

There is clearly a challenge to "balance" in the back line with a double 7 selection. The line out being one potential issue and ruck/hitting up work-load that transfers to the locks being another.

BUT

We saw against Ireland that these matters can be addressed at which point you surely take the opportunity to put your two best players on the field. Whatever was happening here the Pooper is not the cause.

Note also that other top 5 nations have occasionally adopted similar stratagems. Certainly England have used a double-6. From recollection South Africa may have done the same at one stage.

 

[Sully]

How many years have people been banging on about two sevens not working!
Guess what when both of them are fit that's what's going to happen.
And no that's not what this internet forum is for. That would be the I repeat myself over and over because I think that will convince people that I'm right forum.
Let it go.

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[RugbyReg]

Forget the 2 sevens. Is there a better eligible 8 in the country than Pocock? Timu closest but he struggled to make an impact v Ireland.