Bledisloe 2 - Saturday 25th August 2018 - Eden Park, Auckland

[Tomikin]

Tom, I thought I made it clear it was my selections and had nothing to do with the squad makeup.

However, I do agree about starting with TPN and letting FF (Folau Fainga'a) learn off the bench.

I know it was your selection all good.

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[Wilson]

His 2 month ban has been over for a while.. if we wanted him last game we could have had him.. and probably should have been the next pulled in..

As much as I like the guy I don't think he has the match fitness. He looked good in the trial game but ran out of steam pretty quickly, having not been in the squad and not played since I can't see him being ready for test match rugby. A few NRC games under his belt and that may change quickly though.

 

[Tomikin]

As much as I like the guy I don't think he has the match fitness. He looked good in the trial game but ran out of steam pretty quickly, having not been in the squad and not played since I can't see him being ready for test match rugby. A few NRC games under his belt and that may change quickly though.

He would have been more up to it then ainsley. Risk verse reward, you back Robertson to play out AAA to be your short term replacement on eother side in case injury.. Slipper to play the last 20ish either with AAA swapping sides or straight swap for Robertson... and he would have done the job much better then what happened..

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[Quick Hands]

It has become a cliche, but there are too many Tahs in the squad, and too many in the starting team.

Problem is that when you start your analysis off with something like this, you tend to lose people before you start.

On the other hand, many Tahs fans think there aren't enough NSW players in the test team. Remember all the calls earlier in the season for Wells to be in the squad?

It has become a cliche, but there are too many Tahs in the squad, and too many in the starting team. Sekope Kepu is not the player he was, and should now give way to Tupou and Ala'alatoa.

Yes

Phipps is yesterday's man

Yes

Foley must should be given a rest to see if any alternative will work better. No good saying he is the best if it isn't tested.

I tend to agree. I've been a To'omua fan even since he started in super rugby. He should get a chance to start at 5/8, but I don't that this is the week to be doing it.

Beale who now needs to be moved to 10 with To'omua at 12, .

This could work, although long term probably To'omua at 10 and Beale at 12. Beale has shown consistently that he isn't as good when he has to control the whole 80 minutes from 10. He's much better with another player at 10 with Beale having the freedom to overcall at the appropriate times.

O Gordon should replace Phipps in the squad.

Yes

 

[Braveheart81]

QH, if you play any position other than No 7, then I'll take that.

He could play 8 and Hooper and Pocock will still perform exactly the same roles around the park.

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[The torpedo]

LOL so Joe Schmidt, one year our from a world cup, with the 2nd best team in the world who came and beat oz in there own back yard, who has a win in a game against the blacks, would leave Ireland and come coach Australia. He would be hell bent on getting Ireland a world cup victory right now, and outside the blacks there his best shot at doing it..

Maybe once the world cups over Cheika has moved on and he doesnt get the NZ job he may entertain coming to Australia.

ATM Cheika is the best we have got on offer, and to be fair his got his goal of winning a world cup and we should give him a chance to do it. I had high hopes for the first match in Sydney, but we were done over before we hit the field losing Sio and Tupou.. I think outside our top 5 props the next best is along way behind.. well actually our next best is Slipper and maybe we should have gone him at reserve LHP and AAA at THP.

 

[Tomikin]

You mean his got no chance of winning it...He went 1 game from it last time, we are always a shot in knockout rugby..

We have him till the wc lets back him in..fuck it why not..

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[waiopehu oldboy]

NZHurld reporting that temp seating has been added, increasing capacity to ~48500. I'll be interested to see how full the place is at 5 PM when the women run out. Lots of talk about how they deserve better than what they've had in the past (no argument from me on that) so here's a perfect opportunity for those people to put their $ & bums where their mouths are.

 

[fatprop]

Let's see how our new forwards coach turns his area around. The set piece really struggled and that hadn't been the case.

Despite the lack of ball we built pressure, kept the ball close and held on without being able to build from set piece. Keeping the ball tighter limited the ABs turnover attack.

But we obviously couldn't keep up the effort as we had to work so hard to keep in the game.

Set piece is the key to getting close

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[Tomikin]

Let's see how our new forwards coach turns his area around. The set piece really struggled and that hadn't been the case.

Despite the lack of ball we built pressure, kept the ball close and held on without being able to build from set piece. Keeping the ball tighter limited the ABs turnover attack.

But we obviously couldn't keep up the effort as we had to work so hard to keep in the game.

Set piece is the key to getting close

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Would you be changing the cattle ?

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[Brumbieman]

On that note, I feel this is the time for Growden's article. he's a dick, and made a fool of himself early in the article suggesting he should sacked right now (way too late, we're stuck with them all), but he's pretty on the money here IMO:

And the Wallabies faithful have clearly had enough. On Saturday night when the Wallabies gave up in the second half, several Australian supporters, decked out in the green and gold garb, stood in front of the Wallabies coaches box and after fulltime displayed their anger.
Several gave the 'thumbs down' sign at the box, and others blew raspberries at Cheika and Co. Then on the way out, they furiously banged on the window, to make certain they were seen, with more 'thumbs down' gestures. They were disgusted, and rightly so. The Wallabies yet again failed to provide value for money -- and when you lose the fans, it's all over red rover. The coaching staff deserved to witness such anger, because they are at the core of the problem.
Surely Cheika cannot survive. The players are no longer responding to his 'fire and brimstone' manner, an approach which always has a limited lifespan.
Cheika's coaching record since taking over in November 2014 is unacceptable: 25 wins and two draws from 49 Tests, a lamentable 51 percent success rate. He's only won one of his last six Tests. The Wallabies are now ranked fifth in the world and sinking fast. Against the big teams, Australia under Cheika have constantly been also-rans: only two wins in 10 against the All Blacks, a solitary win in seven Tests against England, just one in five against Ireland, while even Scotland have snared two wins in their four internationals.
Cheika's success rate has been bolstered by triumphs over such powerhouses as the United States, Fiji, Uruguay, Italy and Japan.

Compare all that to the industrious Schmidt who in Ireland has so much less to work with. He enjoys a 73 percent Test success rate, winning 81 percent of home Tests, 63 percent away, and 83 percent on neutral territory.
Others have to take the brunt as well. Cheika, a poor selector as shown by Australia's most exclusive club revolving around those who haven't been picked by him for a Wallabies training squad, has made the cardinal error of surrounding himself with acolytes. It never works. The formidable coaching combinations have edge, conflicting viewpoints.
When the Wallabies won the World Cup in 1991, the wily Australian Rugby Union president Joe French demanded coach Bob Dwyer was accompanied by foes - Bob Templeton as assistant and John Connolly as selector. It worked.
When the Wallabies won the World Cup in 1999, coach Rod Macqueen treated the operation as if he was CEO of a major corporation. With wise intervention from the ARU, Macqueen surrounded himself with good operators like Jeff Miller, Tim Lane, Steve Nance, Alec Evans and John Muggleton. Again different, constructive opinions, and once more it worked.
And remember how successful New Zealand were when Graham Henry, Steve Hansen and Wayne Smith worked in tandem. I guarantee you there would have been some vigorous debates when that trio started discussing anything All Black.
Now the Wallabies coaching staff comprises of a forwards coach, whom only a rugby trainspotter would have had a clue who he was when appointed a few months ago. Simon Raiwalui was a Fijian international, who played club footy in Sydney. Riiiiight.
It wasn't a great Bledisloe Cup debut for him. The forward pack Raiwalui was in charge of lost seven own lineout throws and suffered six scrum penalties. The set-piece was a disaster.
The defence coach is Nathan Grey. The Wallabies missed 41 tackles. Under Grey, nothing new there. Next.
Stephen Larkham was a great player, but you can't exactly say he has revitalised Australian back play. Still muddled crossfield shufflers.
Michael Byrne is the skills coach. The former AFL player made his name at the All Blacks. Then again the great Australian Test cricketer Bill O'Reilly used to say: "A border collie dog could coach the All Blacks."
Has the skill level of the Australian team improved since he joined? I can't see it. Witness the dreadful kicks, elementary dropped balls, poor passing skills of numerous Wallabies on Saturday night, against an opposition which never got out of second gear. To lose by 25 points to one of the least impressive All Blacks teams of recent times, who produced only a five-out-of-10 performance, is downright embarrassing. But we keep hearing from the coaching panel that the Wallaby skills are improving. Pull the other one.
This coaching contingent needs a drastic shakeup, as does the whole of the Wallabies staff. As with everything Rugby Australia, it involves a cast of thousands, countless networkers and hangers-on. The Test program listed 18 Wallabies back-up staff. Eighteen!!! I remember the days when the Wallabies would go on long tours with a coach, assistant, doctor and a manager. That was it. In this days they also won consistently, and against formidable opponents.
Cheika is the shopfront window of the Australian game. It's not a good image when virtually every time the cameras cross to him in the coaches' box he is blowing up about something. At least he no longer has his mate and team manager Pat Molihan sitting next to him, mimicking his actions - which was common place during last year's northern hemisphere tour.
After ESPN had a dig at him about that, at least Molihan is now on the sideline doing some actual work. But there seemed to be a serious sideline communication breakdown when Sekope Kepu on his way to the blood bin had to be replaced, and the inexperienced Jermaine Ainsley was exposed in his second scrum. The scrum disintegrated and New Zealand received another penalty. Kepu, who came back on, was later replaced by the more experienced Allan Ala'alatoa. Bewildering stuff.
And then an indignant Wallabies captain Michael Hooper stamps his authority at the press conference by declaring they will bounce back in Auckland next Saturday because: "We've got a plan."
Let's hope this master plan includes knowing how to hold onto a football, how to win lineouts and scrums, how to produce a constructive backline move and how to actually perform like an international team.
Enough of this nonsense. For too long Rugby Australia, which kowtows to Cheika and Co, have treated Wallabies supporters as mugs. For a change, they must be courageous. Before it's too late, get a new Australian coaching panel.

Some very salient points in there.

An example was our clearing kicks. I can actually, and i'm not joking, THROW the fucking ball further than Foley kicks it when he clears. Hodge is finally in the team from the beginning, to the point where we could practice BEFORE the game the kick clearance process to iron out any communication errors.

We see Hodge take one clearing kick from behind his tryline and put it out on HALF WAY!

Does he take a single kick after that? For touch either?

I simply cannot fathom how this monstrous advantage was not built into our game plan for the day. What's more likely to be successful, kicking it 50m from our tryline in one go and chasing well, or slowly work it upfield over 15 phases against the fucking All Blacks for 50m?
I know which one takes more energy out of you! No wonder we were rooted by half time and collapsed, we'd spent the whole half bashing our heads against the AB on our own 22!

What's more psychologically sapping - smashing wave after wave of gold jerseys backwards in their own half then counter attacking when they drop it, or being pinned into your own half and IN RANGE OF THAT KICKERS BOOT should you push the boundaries a bit too much and finally get pinged by Peyper?

If anyone can think of any reason why Foley continued to take the kicks over Hodge, i'm all ears as I like to learn about the game and there may be some high level rugby reason behind it, but I can't see one at all and as far as i'm concerned, it's a basic error of coaching that is stupefying to me.

Like lifting Hooper in the lineout instead of any of the fluffybunnys in the team taller than 200cm who are specifically trained to do jump. Or trying the short lineout with 4 men, and then having them all bunched within 3m of each other!?

Fuck me, I wonder where THAT throw is going eh?

 

[Brumby Runner]

He could play 8 and Hooper and Pocock will still perform exactly the same roles around the park.

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But if Hooper was being assessed for his No 8 contributions, then the questions about his worth to the team would arise. OTH, there would be no question about Pocock's worth as the No 7.

 

[Braveheart81]

But if Hooper was being assessed for his No 8 contributions, then the questions about his worth to the team would arise. OTH, there would be no question about Pocock's worth as the No 7.

He'd still have the same statistics of being high up on the tackle count, topping the run metres amongst our forwards etc. He is also important at leading our line speed in defence.

Pocock was our best forward but I struggle to put anyone ahead of Hooper as our second best forward.

I'm not sure what anyone has seen in Timu to make it obvious that our backrow and forward pack would be better with him in it.

 

[Brumby Runner]

How about a rampaging run from the base of a scrum over 20m to score under the posts. That is what a No 8 is about, and that is precisely what Hooper will never do.

 

[fatprop]

Would you be changing the cattle ?

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For upgrades, sure.

Sio and Thor are obvious if they are right. Hookers? Maybe, before the game it wasn't contemplated that it would have gone so bad.

I don't know if it was really down to just the 2s, or the caller, or the lifters or the jumpers.

But usually it is a mix of all of the above.

I don't like the backs configuration, we missed a 13 who can get over the gain line, but we don't have anyone who could do that role. Rona is a facilitator, line runner, not that crash ball who can be relied on to get the ball over the line

I don't see DHP being dropped with Folau out, we need his experience and calm - I understand he is a very good defensive communicator. And you can't start Banks, Maddocks & Koribete at Eden Park. I would start Banks at 15 with DHP & Koribete, But I wouldn't be surprised to see DHP at 15 and Maddocks on the wing

 

[fatprop]

How about a rampaging run from the base of a scrum over 20m to score under the posts. That is what a No 8 is about, and that is precisely what Hooper will never do.

Timu doesn't have the workrate to be carried for those few effective runs, he went missing against Ireland, he needs more time

 

[Quick Hands]

On that note, I feel this is the time for Growden's article. he's a dick, and made a fool of himself early in the article suggesting he should sacked right now (way too late, we're stuck with them all), but he's pretty on the money here IMO:




Some very salient points in there.
An example was our clearing kicks. I can actually, and i'm not joking, THROW the fucking ball further than Foley kicks it when he clears. Hodge is finally in the team from the beginning, to the point where we could practice BEFORE the game the kick clearance process to iron out any communication errors.

We see Hodge take one clearing kick from behind his tryline and put it out on HALF WAY!

Does he take a single kick after that? For touch either?

I simply cannot fathom how this monstrous advantage was not built into our game plan for the day. What's more likely to be successful, kicking it 50m from our tryline in one go and chasing well, or slowly work it upfield over 15 phases against the fucking All Blacks for 50m?
I know which one takes more energy out of you! No wonder we were rooted by half time and collapsed, we'd spent the whole half bashing our heads against the AB on our own 22!

What's more psychologically sapping - smashing wave after wave of gold jerseys backwards in their own half then counter attacking when they drop it, or being pinned into your own half and IN RANGE OF THAT KICKERS BOOT should you push the boundaries a bit too much and finally get pinged by Peyper?

If anyone can think of any reason why Foley continued to take the kicks over Hodge, i'm all ears as I like to learn about the game and there may be some high level rugby reason behind it, but I can't see one at all and as far as i'm concerned, it's a basic error of coaching that is stupefying to me.

Matthew Burke pointed this stuff out during the commentary.

To paraphrase; why are the Wallabies trying to run the ball from their own line when Hodge can kick it to halfway.

Then on an occasion when the Wallabies did win 1st phase ball inside their 22, as Burke is explaining how and why the ball should go right to Hodge to boot it downfield, the Wallabies pass it to a forward runner who make it to the advantage line (just), and on it went. Burke just groaned when the ball went to the forward. Apart from going nowhere, this tactic is physically taxing and also plain dumb.

 

[Braveheart81]

How about a rampaging run from the base of a scrum over 20m to score under the posts. That is what a No 8 is about, and that is precisely what Hooper will never do.

Well wheel out Toutai Kefu then.

The whole point here is that we don't have a world class number 8. We have a guy who has been decent in his first Super Rugby season that couldn't provide nearly the same impact in the two tests he played.

We're now working with a number 6 who has had a couple of barnstorming games and then a shocker.

The biggest thing Hooper and Pocock provide us is they are consistently amongst our best players.

If we had players of equivalent quality in their positions then I'm all for picking outright specialists in every position but we just don't.

 

[Quick Hands]

He'd still have the same statistics of being high up on the tackle count, topping the run metres amongst our forwards etc. He is also important at leading our line speed in defence.

Pocock was our best forward but I struggle to put anyone ahead of Hooper as our second best forward.

I'm not sure what anyone has seen in Timu to make it obvious that our backrow and forward pack would be better with him in it.

I thought you had me at 8 and Pocock and Hooper at 6/7?

Seriously though, Tui packed at 8 is at least some of the scrums. It would seem a better fit to have him at 8 and Pocock/Hooper at 6/7. Probably doesn't matter what number they have on the back of the jersey, as long as they know what their job is.

 

[fatprop]

I thought you had me at 8 and Pocock and Hooper at 6/7?

Seriously though, Tui packed at 8 is at least some of the scrums. It would seem a better fit to have him at 8 and Pocock/Hooper at 6/7. Probably doesn't matter what number they have on the back of the jersey, as long as they know what their job is.

He and Pocock were moving around, there was a lot of heat coming through at Robinson so Tui sured that up etc