Australia's 5th team

[RugbyReg]

are there any hookers in there?

 

[Lindommer]

are there any hookers in there?

I didn't give Spook an answer because it's just too big a job. However, if my memory serves me correctly Alex Walker at Saracens is a hooker, he may've played first grade for Eastwood. Matt Hastie's also a number 2 but he could only crack seconds at the Pirates. As things stand now one of the Tahs' hookers should move, there's an article somewhere about the Force offering a contract to Fitzpatrick yesterday. Personally, I hope they snag Freier, they need a finished product rather than a learner; Gimli could do with more starts. What's happened to that rake for the East Coast Aces? And weren't there a couple of handy journeymen 2s filling in at the Brumbies the last few years?

The final count was 134 players and 33 coaches. My future endeavours will be directed toward the 2009/10 NH season.

 

[RugbyReg]

Ole Avei went to play in NZL and I think was in the Hurricanes extended squad? Or the Chiefs? All those kiwi teams look the same to me.

 

[formeropenside]

Jade Ingham was the other hooker for the Aces (he was the one in the Freier mode, but better): he has now retired.

What happened to Mann-Rea: he impressed me with his set piece work, and might be worth a sniff.

 

[Gagger]

Damien Omen quoted in RugbyHeaven:

O'Neill said he would be pushing hard for the fifth team in their conference to be from Australia. "I'm sure we will see a very loud and robust bid from the Southern Kings," O'Neill said. "But you will see a very compelling and robust bid from maybe three locations in Australia. I'm appreciative of the political circumstances in South Africa but the real capacity for market share growth is in Australia."

O'Neill said the new Australian team would be different to the other four provinces as it is expected to involve private equity. It is also likely to involve a broad mix of players.

"We will not be making the same mistakes that we did when the Western Force was established," O'Neill said. "We will guarantee that the playing strength of the existing franchises is not diluted and the range of options include repatriating players from overseas, repatriating Pacific Islanders playing in the northern hemisphere, and maybe including Japanese and Argentinian players. There are also 16 NRL teams with players with the required skills. We are not without a reasonable pool from which to fish."

Hehehe. I can hear the Mungos whining already!

 

[fatprop]

Damien Omen quoted in RugbyHeaven:

O'Neill said he would be pushing hard for the fifth team in their conference to be from Australia. "I'm sure we will see a very loud and robust bid from the Southern Kings," O'Neill said. "But you will see a very compelling and robust bid from maybe three locations in Australia. I'm appreciative of the political circumstances in South Africa but the real capacity for market share growth is in Australia."

O'Neill said the new Australian team would be different to the other four provinces as it is expected to involve private equity. It is also likely to involve a broad mix of players.

"We will not be making the same mistakes that we did when the Western Force was established," O'Neill said. "We will guarantee that the playing strength of the existing franchises is not diluted and the range of options include repatriating players from overseas, repatriating Pacific Islanders playing in the northern hemisphere, and maybe including Japanese and Argentinian players. There are also 16 NRL teams with players with the required skills. We are not without a reasonable pool from which to fish."

Hehehe. I can hear the Mungos whining already!

and they don't get paid much

 

[RugbyReg]

don't worry, I've sorted it out. Was up late last night and came up with a list of the Aussie Rugby players we want playing our elite competition. Sorted them into positions and then ranked them so we could ensure we knew who the best players were.

Now, next step is the ARU to tear up all existing contracts and start again. Now, most of the time players will get the chance to remain where they are, but others will be asked to move on the basis of (1) getting more opportunity, (2) making 5 more even teams and thus better competition and thus strengthening Aussie rugby and (3) promotional opportunities.

Now the ARU will have to bring some players home from overseas, so will have to splash out and break contracts etc in order to ensure we have the players we want. And then it simply comes down to selecting the squads. 5 of 26, leaving two spots open for foreigners/marquee players.

And the teams are:

QLD Reds:

15 Mark McLinden
14 Peter Hynes
13 Morgan Turinui
12 Mark Gasnier
11 Luke Morahan
10 Berrick Barnes [c]
9 Will Genia
8 Ben Mowen
7 Beau Robinson
6 Rocky Elsom [vc]
5 James Horwill
4 Adam Byrnes
3 Rodney Blake
2 Sean Hardman
1 Ben Daley

16 James Hanson
17 Greg Holmes
18 Ezra Taylor
19 Andrew Shaw
20 Richard Kingi
21 Ben Tapuai
22 Aiden Toua

23 Dayna Edwards
24 Paul Warwick
25 Ratu Nasiganiyavi
26 Robert Simmons

NSW Waratahs:

15 Drew Mitchell
14 Lachlan Turner
13 Timana Tahu
12 Rob Horne
11 Lote Tuqiri
10 Kurtley Beale
9 Luke Burgess [vc]
8 Wycliffe Palu
7 Phil Waugh [c]
6 Scott Higginbotham
5 Dan Vickerman
4 Dean Mumm
3 Al Baxter
2 Tatafu Nau
1 Benn Robinson

16 Damien Fitzpatrick
17 Salesi Maafu
18 Sam Wykes
19 Ben Coridas
20 Josh Holmes
21 Daniel Halangahu
22 Rodney Davies

23 Jack Kennedy
24 Matt Carraro
25 Sam Latunipulu
26 Tom Carter

ACT Brumbies:

15 Luke Rooney
14 Alfi Mafi
13 Stirling Mortlock
12 Tryone Smith
11 Francis Fainifo
10 Matt Giteau [vc]
9 Josh Valentine
8 Stephen Hoiles
7 George Smith [vc]
6 Mitchell Chapman
5 Peter Kimlin
4 Mark Chisholm
3 Guy Shepherdson
2 Stephen Moore
1 Ben Alexander

16 John Ulugia
17 Laurie Weekes
18 Sitaleki Timani
19 Jake Schatz
20 Patrick Phibbs
21 Matt To'omua
22 Peter Betham

23 Afusipa Taumoepeau
24 Jerry Yanuyanutawa
25 Sanualio Afeaki
26 Talalelei Gray

VIC Rebels:

15 Sam Norton-Knight
14 Digby Ioane
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper [vc]
12 Gene Fairbanks
11 Will Chambers
10 Quade Cooper
9 Nic Berry
8 David Lyons [c]
7 Julian Salvi
6 Daniel Heenan
5 Hugh McMeniman
4 Tom Hockings
3 Dan Palmer
2 Huia Edmonds
1 Matt Dunning

16 Luke Holmes
17 Nick Henderson
18 Leroy Houston
19 Lei Tomiki
20 Matt Henjak
21 Lloyd Johansson
22 Blair Connor

23 Ben Coutts
24 Ben Hand
25 Charlie Fetoai
26 Scott Daruda

WA Force:

15 Cameron Shepherd [vc]
14 Lachlan Mitchell
13 Ryan Cross
12 James O'Connor
11 Nick Cummins
10 Christian Lealiifano
9 Ben Lucas
8 Richard Brown
7 David Pocock [c]
6 Matt Hodgson
5 Nathan Sharpe
4 Will Caldwell
3 Tim Fairbrother
2 Adam Freier
1 Sekope Kepu

16 Ben Whittaker
17 Pek Cowan
18 Adam Wallace-Harrison
19 Poutasi Luafutu
20 Brett Sheehan
21 Chris Siale
22 Dane Haylett-Petty

23 Brock James
24 Corey Brown
25 Jone Tawake
26 Kieran Longbottom

 

[Biffo]

VIC Rebels:

6 Daniel Heenan
5 Hugh McMeniman

Priceless

 

[formeropenside]

Noddy, the goal is to have Qld claim its 4th Super title, not provide "depth" for the Wallabies by spreading Queenslanders around other made-up teams.

Please try again.

 

[Lindommer]

VIC Rebels:

6 Daniel Heenan
5 Hugh McMeniman

Priceless

The same thought crossed my mind, Biffo. Maybe Noddy knows something about the Victorian health system we don't. Or maybe he's being sadistic.

 

[Biffo]

Noddy, the goal is to have Qld claim its 4th Super title, not provide "depth" for the Wallabies by spreading Queenslanders around other made-up teams.

Please try again.

Care do a count of the origin of players in Noddy's list? The league SOO definition (where played first game of senior rugby) will do. Think you'll get to 25%?

 

[RugbyReg]

Sorry FOS:

15 Mark McLinden
14 Peter Hynes
13 Digby Ioane
12 James O'Connor
11 Drew Mitchell
10 Berrick Barnes
9 Will Genia
8 Richard Brown
7 David Pocock
6 Rocky Elsom
5 James Horwill
4 Nathan Sharpe
3 Laurie Weeks
2 Stephen Moore
1 Ben Daley

16 Sean Hardman
17 Greg Holmes
18 Mark Chisholm
19 Hugh McMeniman
20 Ben Lucas
21 Quade Cooper
22 Nick Cummins

The rest of you can please yourselves.

 

[PaarlBok]

Damien Omen quoted in RugbyHeaven:

O'Neill said he would be pushing hard for the fifth team in their conference to be from Australia. "I'm sure we will see a very loud and robust bid from the Southern Kings,"

Sure he will! 8)

Hope he dont read the forum because I'll do it on behalf of Saru for him.

 

[formeropenside]

Sorry FOS:

15 Mark McLinden
14 Peter Hynes
13 Digby Ione
12 James O'Connor
11 Drew Mitchell
10 Berrick Barnes
9 Will Genia
8 Richard Brown
7 David Pocock
6 Rocky Elsom
5 James Horwill
4 Nathan Sharpe
3 Laurie Weekes
2 Stephen Moore
1 Ben Daley

16 Sean Hardman
17 Greg Holmes
18 Mark Chisolm
19 Hugh McMeniman
20 Ben Lucas
21 Quade Cooper
22 Nick Cummins

The rest of you can please yourselves.

Thanks Nodster, thats superb. I'd bring Blake back from France though.

 

[disco]

Don't know if he got a mention in any of the earlier posts but Adam Wallace-Harrison is another one who could comeback.

Plus you've got imports maybe Rupeni Cau??? could make a comeback to super 14 with Carl Hayman to anchor the scrum.

 

[Biffo]

There is lots of chatter in this and other threads about Australian players "coming back" from Yurope or Japan to play S15. A statment and a question:

Statment: Those players are older and have many more miles on the clock (some very much so) than when last seen in Australian colours.

Question: Why would a professional player accept a 75% cut in pay to move elsewhere?

 

[RugbyReg]

There is lots of chatter in this and other threads about Australian players "coming back" from Yurope or Japan to play S15. A statment and a question:

Statment: Those players are older and have many more miles on the clock (some very much so) than when last seen in Australian colours.

Question: Why would a professional player accept a 75% cut in pay to move elsewhere?

Biffo, this is the exact question the likes of FOS (initially) and others have used to prove that this 5th team won't be succesful. In saying that, let's ask Scott Staniforth, Tyrone Smith, Ed O'Donaghue, Ben Coutts and a few others who came back.

Or we could ask George Smith who just turned down, what, possibly 4 times his salary? to stay in Australia so he could wear the Wallaby jersey.

In reality, the ARU will have to open the purse strings. Big time.

 

[Biffo]

There is lots of chatter in this and other threads about Australian players "coming back" from Yurope or Japan to play S15. A statment and a question:

Statment: Those players are older and have many more miles on the clock (some very much so) than when last seen in Australian colours.

Question: Why would a professional player accept a 75% cut in pay to move elsewhere?

Biffo, this is the exact question the likes of FOS (initially) and others have used to prove that this 5th team won't be succesful. In saying that, let's ask Scott Staniforth, Tyrone Smith, Ed O'Donaghue, Ben Coutts and a few others who came back.

Or we could ask George Smith who just turned down, what, possibly 4 times his salary? to stay in Australia so he could wear the Wallaby jersey.

In reality, the ARU will have to open the purse strings. Big time.

I don't think I wrote anywhere that bringing home the overseas based Australians would be a major source of players for the Gold Coast's S15 team. I'd be far more interested in trolling club rugby around the world as probably the major source.

Let's say:

2-3 test standard Wallabies from other teams.

the famed "marquee player" from abroad.

the famed "potential Wallaby" from abroad

6-8 established, but not test, players from other Australian S15 squads - the movement of Leiliifano, To'omua, two props from NSW and a back rower from the Reds wouldn't hurt the poached teams much.

8-10 club players from Australia.

8-10 club players from Yurope, NZ and SA

3-4 returnees

2-3 league recruit recruits.

Given that start-up is 2011 and that is RWC year, there might be a loose player or two looking for a Wallaby sport - e.g., Mark Gasnier.

Prospective 5th team managements should be looking closely at the upcoming World U20 Cup as well.

 

[Lindommer]

Sorry FOS:

So much for being "Queenslanders"

15 Mark McLinden born in Canberra, played rugby there as a schoolboy
14 Peter Hynes
13 Digby Ioane born in Wellington NZ, brought up in Melbourne
12 James O'Connor
11 Drew Mitchell
10 Berrick Barnes
9 Will Genia
8 Richard Brown
7 David Pocock born in Zimbabwe, plays for the Force
6 Rocky Elsom born in Melbourne, senior Oz rugby career with the Tahs
5 James Horwill
4 Nathan Sharpe born in Wagga Wagga, plays for the Force
3 Laurie Weeks born in Sydney, went to Joeys, started with Wests Juniors
2 Stephen Moore born in Saudi Arabia of Irish parents, plays for the Brumbies
1 Ben Daley born in Sydney, stolen by Queensland

16 Sean Hardman
17 Greg Holmes
18 Mark Chisholm
19 Hugh McMeniman
20 Ben Lucas
21 Quade Cooper born in Waikato NZ, came to Oz as a late teen
22 Nick Cummins born in Sydney, plays for the Force

And the last one: Rodney Blake, born in Tonga, started with Wests Juniors and West Harbour, stolen by Queensland

 

[Gagger]

3-4 returnees

I reckon this is where we're currently currently missing a trick and where a 5th team should have a good look.

Think of what a Manny Edmonds or Shane Drahm (both 31) could pass on to a Lealiifano, To'omua or even O'Connor in terms of game management experience and skills.

I'm doubting these guys are on massive money over here (EU) now and by recollection moved away in the first place because they couldn't get a regular S14 gig, not that there was a massive money difference. Would be gob-smacked if they weren't thinking about how to work their way back home, and just maybe extend their playing career if things go well.

They wouldn't even have to be the starting player, just be there to back up, fill gaps and pass on ideas and guidance.