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OLDDOG
Guest
ahh the QLD 1's achilles heel 9 & 10 was well exploited, WELL DONE NSW 2!!!!
Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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OLDDOG
Guest
Looks like NSW are finally gonna bring home the goods. Good to break the recent run of QLD!
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Doc
Guest
Great night of rugby at Ballymore, many reputations left in tatters. Will do some boys, especially the Qlders, good in the long run. We elevate them too quickly without merit and tonight was a great example. Well done to QLD 2 and NSW 2 (that pains me to say).
Olddog, Agreed with 9 & 10 but the pack as a whole were awful. Scrum couldn't produce clean ball, despite CHOOSING to pack down instead of 3 easy points. The lineout lost about 6 against the throw in 5 minutes, that was a killer blow. Think they also paid the price for selecting a massive pack, rather than players in positions (ie 4 number 8s in the 22)
Points to NSW 2 for a pretty solid all round game.
Both 1v1 and 2v2 games should be crackers as well as combined states vs act.
Olddog, Agreed with 9 & 10 but the pack as a whole were awful. Scrum couldn't produce clean ball, despite CHOOSING to pack down instead of 3 easy points. The lineout lost about 6 against the throw in 5 minutes, that was a killer blow. Think they also paid the price for selecting a massive pack, rather than players in positions (ie 4 number 8s in the 22)
Points to NSW 2 for a pretty solid all round game.
Both 1v1 and 2v2 games should be crackers as well as combined states vs act.
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DEER HUNTER
Guest
Go NSW 2 and QLD 2 good to see politics has been brushed aside for talent. A good kick in the pants for the brass. Guess who will get their way at the next level though !
S
saviour road
Guest
That performance by a handful of Qld players was disgraceful but no more than that of the coach for not remedying the problem when it became apparent last Tuesday.
No 12 did nothing all week but hit it up himself despite backline calls to spread the ball to their wingers. The calls were clear, you could hear it in the front rows.
No 8 did the same off the back of the scrum and gained miniscule ground
The hooker hasn't thrown accurately all week yet he was not hooked. Ball kicked into touch despite losing 6 lineouts in a row off your own throw. 4 penalties within spitting distance and scrums were taken - exceptionally poor option taking by the captain.
Well done NSW II, you have a good team and it has looked good all week except for an abberation last night, but what a shame this Qld team did not allow itself to play as a team.
Then again it's a preoccupation with selectors to favour certain players over others even though there is glaring deficiency. When will they ever learn.
I fear this performane cost team mates when it comes to selections but the good point is they couldn't do any wrong in that instance. I worry about the 13, 11 and 14 as they were the ones they should have utilised the most but were ignored the most. 11 touched the ball twice and that did not come from any backline play - retrieval in defence. Same for 14 I think.
Just shameful.
No 12 did nothing all week but hit it up himself despite backline calls to spread the ball to their wingers. The calls were clear, you could hear it in the front rows.
No 8 did the same off the back of the scrum and gained miniscule ground
The hooker hasn't thrown accurately all week yet he was not hooked. Ball kicked into touch despite losing 6 lineouts in a row off your own throw. 4 penalties within spitting distance and scrums were taken - exceptionally poor option taking by the captain.
Well done NSW II, you have a good team and it has looked good all week except for an abberation last night, but what a shame this Qld team did not allow itself to play as a team.
Then again it's a preoccupation with selectors to favour certain players over others even though there is glaring deficiency. When will they ever learn.
I fear this performane cost team mates when it comes to selections but the good point is they couldn't do any wrong in that instance. I worry about the 13, 11 and 14 as they were the ones they should have utilised the most but were ignored the most. 11 touched the ball twice and that did not come from any backline play - retrieval in defence. Same for 14 I think.
Just shameful.
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Doc
Guest
saviour,
You are right about the lineout throwing, certainly a player can have an off night, but after 6 straight something needs to be changed or tried to remedy the situation.
When you look at how well combined states have been coached you can see what could have been.
You are right about the lineout throwing, certainly a player can have an off night, but after 6 straight something needs to be changed or tried to remedy the situation.
When you look at how well combined states have been coached you can see what could have been.
C
catchpole
Guest
How did the front rows for both NSW teams play in their respective matches?
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Doc
Guest
Given that the combined states side was essentially robbed vs NSW1, beat VIC by more than QLD2 and played QLD2 with no prep and weren't embarrassed, I would agree.
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DEER HUNTER
Guest
Isn't it funny how the pathway through Australian Schools is the main pathway through to the Aust 20,s (what was that result in the final ?) and the Wallabies.
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catchpole
Guest
Spewn,
It appears to me that the political and selection issues that are apparent in the progression from School teams to the CAS, GPS, ISA, CCC, Country and CHS Carnival expand exponentially at State and National Championship level.
We all saw the abundant talent on display at the Schoolboy carnivals in June but sat back in amazement as the NSW Schools teams, Combined States team and Shadow lists were published by the Selector/Coaches.
As was stated 10 days ago by many members of this forum who are far more knowledgeable and accomplished than me, the Coaches/Selectors of the teams will either be exposed as geniuses or misguided and delusional egocentrics, as the results unfold.
It now appears that the selection philosophy that comprised the NSW Schools 1st XV was flawed and did not produce the results that were expected.
The question is: What will the NSW Schools Rugby Union do about it to rectify the situation for next season?
If it was business the responsible executive would be held responsible and re-assigned, demoted or dismissed.
For me its not necessarily the fact that the NSW 1st XV did not win the National Championship, its more involved with the fact that one individual is granted absolute power of selection policy to shape the team and the future of the players under his control.
It appears to me that the political and selection issues that are apparent in the progression from School teams to the CAS, GPS, ISA, CCC, Country and CHS Carnival expand exponentially at State and National Championship level.
We all saw the abundant talent on display at the Schoolboy carnivals in June but sat back in amazement as the NSW Schools teams, Combined States team and Shadow lists were published by the Selector/Coaches.
As was stated 10 days ago by many members of this forum who are far more knowledgeable and accomplished than me, the Coaches/Selectors of the teams will either be exposed as geniuses or misguided and delusional egocentrics, as the results unfold.
It now appears that the selection philosophy that comprised the NSW Schools 1st XV was flawed and did not produce the results that were expected.
The question is: What will the NSW Schools Rugby Union do about it to rectify the situation for next season?
If it was business the responsible executive would be held responsible and re-assigned, demoted or dismissed.
For me its not necessarily the fact that the NSW 1st XV did not win the National Championship, its more involved with the fact that one individual is granted absolute power of selection policy to shape the team and the future of the players under his control.
S
saviour road
Guest
The Qld I front row were smashed by NSW II.
The best No 3 is the WA Hoskins then Gillespie from NSW II, Roach by far the best 2
Will Slipper last night was one of a very few Qld forwards to can stand with pride - The other backrowers went on leave completely and many players can't take the hits and go completely to water.
The poor old wingers got frostbite last night..
It's all been said.
So lets revisit that team;
1: Gillespie (NSW) a prop that runs well and looks like a rugby player
2: Roach (NSW) boy oh boy does he do some work
3: Hoskins (WA) or Millar (NSW)
4: Hosegood (NSW)
5: Melrose (NSW) don't believe in breaking up a good lock pairing when they are working so well together
6: Killingworth (NSW)
7: ?
8: Slipper (Qld)
9: ? no one stood up yet
10: Dunbar (NSW) no question
11: Petaia (or Sautia) (Qld)
12: Ingate (NSW) good games all wek and is an ideal 12
13: Sautia (Qld) way too incisinve and dangerous
14: Crook (Qld)
15: Holland (ACT) the ony fullback to really show flair in counterattack or Crook (Qld)
If you want the best TEAM and best players. Do you want rugby players or pieces of meat?
if you want a state by state political correct balance then please yourself. I am over the selection of wrong people for the job, as was shown by Brisby in NSW I, totally inept for the position.
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OLDDOG
Guest
Gents, Ive said it before, and I'll say it again, in simpler english. The NSW 1's 2's and ditto QLD were NOT THE BEST OF THE BUNCH. THEY WERE THE RESULT OF SCHOOL COACH TRADEOFF'S. Many, many great players were subjected to the proverbial shafting......
Thats why the CSS side performed so well, and best of luck to them. Injury also prevented quite a few standouts from appearing, but the absence of depth in some key positions will have the selectors having a good think, for sure.
Sure they were a picked from every where, but , in the end, where dads can talk a good game for their boys, as is only human nature, the real result is on the paddock.
QLD 1 have a real issue in the halves, NSW 1 have their weakness in their individuality.
There's better players out there lads, they just werent picked....end result? Ah well....its on the scoreboards.
Thats why the CSS side performed so well, and best of luck to them. Injury also prevented quite a few standouts from appearing, but the absence of depth in some key positions will have the selectors having a good think, for sure.
Sure they were a picked from every where, but , in the end, where dads can talk a good game for their boys, as is only human nature, the real result is on the paddock.
QLD 1 have a real issue in the halves, NSW 1 have their weakness in their individuality.
There's better players out there lads, they just werent picked....end result? Ah well....its on the scoreboards.
S
saviour road
Guest
No one has spoken about the Qld II v NSW I game.
That was a great game. NSW went to a very early lead 19-0 however it was Qld who looked dominant and played the dominant rugby.
There were not many standouts, except Steve Hunt who played on while injured and if not for him I doubt Qld would have been in any position to score.
There were no fancy 'look at me' types, no greedy ball hoggers, just a great game of rugby where two teams played to win and not impress or stamp an individual mark.
Some of the Qld players came up short against NSW players but in the end true Qld spirit came out triumphant.
That was a great game. NSW went to a very early lead 19-0 however it was Qld who looked dominant and played the dominant rugby.
There were not many standouts, except Steve Hunt who played on while injured and if not for him I doubt Qld would have been in any position to score.
There were no fancy 'look at me' types, no greedy ball hoggers, just a great game of rugby where two teams played to win and not impress or stamp an individual mark.
Some of the Qld players came up short against NSW players but in the end true Qld spirit came out triumphant.
C
catchpole
Guest
Saviour Road,
Can you see a place for Guy Millar in either of the two Australian Schools side?. In my opinion he was the form prop from NSW leading into the Championship.
Can you see a place for Guy Millar in either of the two Australian Schools side?. In my opinion he was the form prop from NSW leading into the Championship.
Spewn
Alex Ross (28)
Catchpole
Agree with your response. Good luck to all the boys but it irks me that boys were never given an opportunity at this level (couldn't get through the first hurdle of school poilics, lobbying, etc) or were deemed only good enough as reserves or shadows. The problem is then compounded by the nonsensical love affair of senior selectors and clubs (at least initially) with schoolboy rugby as the correct pathway through the ranks or as the only available pool of talent. Schoolboy rugby is not the right pathway. It is open to too much school, parental, individual bias and influence. Super 14 franchises for example put too much stock in these schoolboy teams rather than doing it the old way of watching decent club rugby and seei g for themselves who are hardened tough talented players. That should do it for a rant.
Agree with your response. Good luck to all the boys but it irks me that boys were never given an opportunity at this level (couldn't get through the first hurdle of school poilics, lobbying, etc) or were deemed only good enough as reserves or shadows. The problem is then compounded by the nonsensical love affair of senior selectors and clubs (at least initially) with schoolboy rugby as the correct pathway through the ranks or as the only available pool of talent. Schoolboy rugby is not the right pathway. It is open to too much school, parental, individual bias and influence. Super 14 franchises for example put too much stock in these schoolboy teams rather than doing it the old way of watching decent club rugby and seei g for themselves who are hardened tough talented players. That should do it for a rant.
S
saviour road
Guest
The No3 has been very well contested. I think Birmingham has been outclassed. I had Gillespie at 3 but that was my bad, so I would say that Millar is in contention with Hoskins from WA.
Certainly there is no one in Qld looking at front row selection, both rather all their scrums have been decimated by far better and more committed opposition.
Off topic but one player who did pick up last night was Havea but maybe a bit late. He was nowheresville on Thursday. After last night I really think Slipper is the only player who has the 'smarts' for No8. None of the 8's have been super fit individuals but Slipper knows what to do and when to do it rather than being a piece of meat.
C
catchpole
Guest
Saviour Road,
Thanks mate.
Your point about the intelligence in the championship minutes is really the distinguishing point of a truly great player. making the play under pressure and extreme fatigue is where the really good players take a step forward.
I only saw Havea play once for ISA I on 25 June. In that game against CAS I he appeared more intent on the individual physical contest rather than the structure of his game and the team effort. I am glad to hear he lifted his game, albeit a bit late.
Thanks mate.
Your point about the intelligence in the championship minutes is really the distinguishing point of a truly great player. making the play under pressure and extreme fatigue is where the really good players take a step forward.
I only saw Havea play once for ISA I on 25 June. In that game against CAS I he appeared more intent on the individual physical contest rather than the structure of his game and the team effort. I am glad to hear he lifted his game, albeit a bit late.
S
saviour road
Guest
That is where the school and for that matter junior selectors get it all wrong. All too often they are impressed with a bit hit or a bit of razamadaz when they should be looking at the player, and what he does off the ball, what his rugby intelligence is like and that big Skelton is a prime example. I am sure the lad is a real lovely guy but a rugby player at this level I really think not.
This week has shown some real 'rugby' players as oppose to players filling a role.
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