Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010

[DEER HUNTER]

Catchpole

Agree with your response. Good luck to all the boys but it irks me that boys were never given an opportunity at this level (couldn't get through the first hurdle of school poilics, lobbying, etc) or were deemed only good enough as reserves or shadows. The problem is then compounded by the nonsensical love affair of senior selectors and clubs (at least initially) with schoolboy rugby as the correct pathway through the ranks or as the only available pool of talent. Schoolboy rugby is not the right pathway. It is open to too much school, parental, individual bias and influence. Super 14 franchises for example put too much stock in these schoolboy teams rather than doing it the old way of watching decent club rugby and seei g for themselves who are hardened tough talented players. That should do it for a rant.

Finally someone with a brain. Australian rugby could be a real super power if the schools didnt control it, and if players arent going to a desent school they get lost around 16, 17, 18 years of age in to the black whole or go to rugby league. Why do you think a lot of these boys do pathways, it's because they know this is their last chance of making it into professional rugby. The old school tie and back room deals runs Aust. Rugby. Rob Deans is a bit of light at the end of the tunnell though.

 

[observer]

Day 3

POOL A

Combined States 31 (Jack Walters, Jordon Reid, Michael Murphy, Andrew Muirhead, Daniel O’Leary tries Andrew Muirhead 3 con) defeated Victoria 5 (Justin Masters try)

QLD II 20 (Dion Taumata, Andrew Ready tries, Dion Taumata 2 con, 2 pen) defeated NSW I 19 (Maketoa Hingano, Declan Smith, Luke Keary tries, Samuel Muller 2 con)

POOL B

ACT 42 (Nick Murray, Jack Jones, Lewis Holland, Jonathon Andrew-Copsey, Daniel Potts tries, James Field 4 con, 3 pen) defeated WA 12 (Richard Cooper, Oli Hoskin tries, Antini Brown 1 con)

NSW II 28 (Ben Melrose, Chris Ingate, Sam Ahofono tries, Ed Wylie 2 con 3 pen) Defeated QLD I 21 (Walter Petaia, Grant Davies, Chris F’Sautia tries, Henry Taefu 3 con)

FINAL POOL PLACINGS

POOL A 1st QLD II, 2nd NSW I, 3rd Combined States, 4th Victoria

POOL B 1st NSW II, 2nd QLD I, 3rd ACT, 4th Western Australia

Finals to be played at Ballymore, Sunday 11th July

9:00am Victoria v Western Australia (Ballymore No 2)

9:45am ACT v Combined States

11:00am NSW I v QLD I

Championship Final

12:30pm Queensland II v NSW II

 

[skullring]

Saviour Road,

Thanks mate.

Your point about the intelligence in the championship minutes is really the distinguishing point of a truly great player. making the play under pressure and extreme fatigue is where the really good players take a step forward.

I only saw Havea play once for ISA I on 25 June. In that game against CAS I he appeared more intent on the individual physical contest rather than the structure of his game and the team effort. I am glad to hear he lifted his game, albeit a bit late.

He was the CHS #8

 

[observer]

It now appears that the selection philosophy that comprised the NSW Schools 1st XV was flawed and did not produce the results that were expected.
The question is: What will the NSW Schools Rugby Union do about it to rectify the situation for next season?

THE PAPAHATZIS EXPERIMENT:
Died 5.45 pm Friday 9 July 2010 from self inflicted wounds
Leaves behind many devasted players and supporters in NSW
Funeral to be held at Ballymore Queensland Sunday 11 July 2010

 

[skullring]

No i personally believe that letting one man hijack selections and choose whom he wanted was a great idea. I don't care what any of you say

 

[charcoal]

Take your medicine

Last year he didn't get the team he wanted, but several were good enough for Aus U20's this year. This time he got what he wanted, and preferred boys from his own teams over obviously better candidates. In the forwards he chose ball runners over ball winners, and picked backs who had not performed against quality opposition. Without the advantage he has in assembling a school team, his results are, frankly, quite poor. This result was predictable and antcipated by many

 

[Doc]

With regards to the prop discussion, I am amazed at the technical issues the qld tightheads have (in te pre-engagement and engagement phases). Both played at this level last year and one has been in the NTS for several years, yet no one has picked up on some of these issues. They are big faults but in reality could be fixed very quickly. Given the qld scrums have struggled all week, maybe this needs to be looked at.

 

[Doc]

No one has spoken about the Qld II v NSW I game.
That was a great game. NSW went to a very early lead 19-0 however it was Qld who looked dominant and played the dominant rugby.
There were not many standouts, except Steve Hunt who played on while injured and if not for him I doubt Qld would have been in any position to score.
There were no fancy 'look at me' types, no greedy ball hoggers, just a great game of rugby where two teams played to win and not impress or stamp an individual mark.
Some of the Qld players came up short against NSW players but in the end true Qld spirit came out triumphant.

Hunt was great. Only missed out 1 due to Taaufu having such a great week the week before. Shame he couldn't carry it through to this week.

That happened alot for the qlders, great season picked in gps 1 or 2 team, had a poor states, dropped down to qld 2 or combined states, then a good nationals.

 

[saviour road]

Hunt was great. Only missed out 1 due to Taaufu having such a great week the week before. Shame he couldn't carry it through to this week.
That happened alot for the qlders, great season picked in gps 1 or 2 team, had a poor states, dropped down to qld 2 or combined states, then a good nationals.

Can Hunt play 12?? I have never seen him there
As I said previously Hunt has to compete with Sautia and Ingate for 13. I think Ingate would be a good 12 as there have been no other standouts or they could go Ingate 12, Hunt 13 Sautia 11 but Sautia is far more lethal at 13.

The big question is the halves and 15, 8 and 7

 

[catchpole]

Ghost,

My apologies. You are correct but my sentiments remain the same.

 

[saviour road]

That is Hunt's preferred position! The kid is a genius... Just needs to not be used the way these blokes have used him. He is for mine the best 12 in QLD by a long way. Was crucified by the 10 in GPS trials playing for himself! He is a class act. For mine should have been the QLD 1 12. Has very few weaknesses in his game in my opinion.

In hindsight Davies didn't work out at all. The backline just hasn't worked. What I liked about Dunbar is that when he kicks in gen play they come off, I didn't see any bad kicks from him and he takes the ball to the line comfortably and seems to have plenty of room and time to offload.
Then I shall have Hunt at 12, Sautia at 13, Crook at 14, probably Petaia or Hulme at 11. If they opt for Ingate at 12 the Sautia at 11 and Crook at 14.
I also liked Deckan Smith at 11. He shows some good skills.

 

[catchpole]

I didn't apply the picture to my last posting.

Does this mean that I am a tosser?

 

[NorthernSon]

Stop the Rot

Hmm,
I have read with interest the well articulated debate on selections for both Qld and NSW and the commentary on the matches to date.
Being a "Junior Observer" I would like to open my contribution to the group with four key facts.

FACT 1. To gain a spot as a NSW Schoolboy Coach for 1st XV , 2nd XV or Under 16 you need solid track record and more importantly have the numbers at the NSW Schools AGM to dominate. Papa has these and hence got the gig and after failing in 2009 lobbied hard to become the sole selector (of course taking on the wisdom of ARU's HPU's Manu Sutherland).

FACT 2. The lack of GPS boys in the NSW Open squads and shadows after running away with victories against CAS and CHS in the NSW Schools trials with only 2 training sessions under their belt demonstrated that Papa (ISA) and his assistant Kipp (CHS) had an obvious agenda in not having a serious look at the talent available through to GPS 3rd XV.

FACT 3. The 2011 party will only be over for Papa and Kipp if they do not stand or CAS or GPS can get numbers to the AGM and free up a quality coach to nominate.

FACT 4. Aussie Schools 1's and A's will see a good mix of NSW GPS and CAS boys in the mix because the ARU's Manu and Whit's will ensure the NTS boys get a run on every 50/50 decision.

FACT 5. A number of boys having been dudded through the NSW selection debacle over the past 2 years of the Papa and Kipp era and not fortunate to be targeted through NTS will absolutely shine in Colts . (eg Hickey Sydney Uni #7).

FACT 6. Australia will continue to get belted at NZ at Schoolboys and Aus Under 20's unless they go back and pick physical uncompromising types (Diamonds not Crystals as Robbie Deans would refer to them as). The Liam Gill type are great for 7's but not for the 15 man game.

 

[saviour road]

Hunt was great. Only missed out 1 due to Taaufu having such a great week the week before. Shame he couldn't carry it through to this week.
That happened alot for the qlders, great season picked in gps 1 or 2 team, had a poor states, dropped down to qld 2 or combined states, then a good nationals.

While the NSWelshpeople have their selection problems they are totally different to those in QLD.
Here players were picked it seems because of a 'presence' at school rugby notwithstanding the fact that they are not 'real' rugby players. Qld just totally selected the wrong players for the job.
My example is No8 Palupe. He will never IMO play superior rugby to what he has done at No8. If he doesn't make the move to the front row he is doomed in rugby. He shouldn't even be at these games as a No8. He does hit ups but that is all - he has very little concept of a loose forward game other than camping in the backs when he gets out of puff.
If you are going to have him in the team you need a real workhorse #6 to support him. Here we had Timu who is a #8 but playing at #6 for the bulk of the tournament but last night at lock to make way for Slipper at #6.
What a total mishmash of players.Hello, are we picking a rugby team or giving positions as reward? Last night the only real workers were Slipper, Timu and Browning but browing was way too short for a lock. And you were right on Hunt. Taefu had a great trial and Steven didn't, yet we have seen since Tuesday how inept Taefu is at this level, particularly as a team player. He is a solo expert.
The performance last night, and please without taking away any of the credit due to NSW II was disgraceful. It was 4-5 key players hijacking a game because they can't do it any other way.
My fear is and it is real that Palupe, Taefu, Ngaumo will make Aus schools. They are not good enough and I fear selectors don't see this.

 

[Scarfman]

... how inept Taefu is at this level ...

You're not listening Super Rugby. Have 14 days on me.

 

[Lee Grant]

NSW 2 vs QLD 2 in the final

Looks like NSW are finally gonna bring home the goods. Good to break the recent run of QLD!

Old dog - Let's not get too cocky and remember 2006 when Qld II beat NSW II in the final

Go NSW 2 and QLD 2 good to see politics has been brushed aside for talent. A good kick in the pants for the brass. Guess who will get their way at the next level though !

That happened in 2006 but in the case of the NSW players, I don't think it will apply this year - or not as much. Many of the posters in the NSW Schools thread and earlier in this one suggested that the NSW Twos team had better players (except in a few positions, such as 2 and 3) and the Ones backs were chosen for combinations - and some of the Ones forwards chosen in error. If we punters can recognise that I trust that the Oz Schools selectors will also and recalibrate.

12: Ingate (NSW) good games all wek and is an ideal 12.

Did Ingate play 12 on Friday - because Apo was injured? If that is the case, great news that he can play inside centre well.

.

 

[Lee Grant]

Super 14 franchises for example put too much stock in these schoolboy teams rather than doing it the old way of watching decent club rugby and seeing for themselves who are hardened tough talented players.

It's an old gripe we all have but it's no mystery why they do it. They can't wait until the teenagers play Colts or Grade because some other Super outfit will nab them if they don't. The reason why this happens year after year after year, and will be worse with 5 teams, is the lack of depth in Oz rugby; so they recruit them out of school as medium term projects and hopefully they will still be there for them when they are seasoned enough to play in Super rugby.

Apart from rare stars who get a Super contract straight out of school they hedge their bets and give the good school players a 1 year pro academy deal to have a look at them, and the lesser ones an amateur spot.

Not to the point but some franchises use them as 18 y.o.s as the Brumbies did last year with Michael Hooper. The fact that Hooper had had a shoulder reconstruction about 9 months before did not signify.

The only way to build up meaningful depth of older players (and referees and coaches for that matter) is to find way to reintroduce the ARC; but it is an old song I sing. Meantime expect more schools players to be signed up before their time. Also expect the same comments to be made on this forum next year as they have been every other year.

.

 

[Moses]

I didn't apply the picture to my last posting.

Does this mean that I am a tosser?

Once you pass 50 posts if you haven't picked an avatar we'll give you one. You're catching a pole
Feel free to change it though, just go to forum actions, edit profile, edit avatar.

 

[coachescough]

In regards to Queensland 2 against NSW 1 game last night, yes Steven Hunt played great but as a whole so did the entire team. The forwards never tired continuing to take the ball forward and winning all their lineouts and even quite a few of NSW lineouts making life a lot easier for the backs who then showed the crowd how to work as a team and not individually - Well done boys and good luck in the Championship Final tomorrow.

 

[foxyloxy]

Did Ingate play 12 on Friday - because Apo was injured? If that is the case, great news that he can play inside centre well..

rather red carded but no Ingate stayed at 13 on Friday and scored a nice try. His father was pleased as punch as were all us NSW people.

And all this talk of the flash Queensland backs. That Crook and Sautia did absolutely nothing last night. I would rather have Ingate and Hulme over them any day. They really should have been more involved if they are as good as people say.