Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010

[Rothschild]

I don't think there are too many people who doubt JOC (James O'Connor)'s ability, particularly now and he has shown thathe is and will be a very valuable member to the Australian rugby community for many years to come. With that I will not disagree.
However, there are many, including myself and many astute member of this forum who believe his rapid rise in S14/international rugby was too rapid, that he was snapped up by the ARU due to a very good and effective marketing program and his cause would have been far better served by him doing his apprenticeship in club rugby for a year or two instead of learning is trade at international level. This did him some serious harm, particularly in a number of defensive situations.
And please kiddies, if you argue against the notion of that effective marketing program then you are showing your ignorance as it was a very hot topic at the time with most rugby plaudits discussing it and having similar opinions as to this comment. The playing him off against the ARU,NZRU and SARFU was in short a very cheap ploy but for him and the family it paid financial dividends very quickly.
So I am not arguing against his talent of which there is plenty. I am decrying the way he got his opportunity and the way he was forced to learn on the run. At the end of grade 12 he was not the superstar he is now and there were better school players in front of him - that is a fact but he has shown now he is worth the attention.
yes dobduff his dad is a very smart guy, at times more consumed with the holy $$$ but it looks like in the long run it will work out.

 

[dobduff11]

Rotschild do you think JOC (James O'Connor) would have been better served playing club rugby and then making the step up this year to Super 14 like Morahan?

IMHO i think JOC (James O'Connor) was one of the rare cases that the exposure has probably helped him develop as a player. Especially because he was playing with an in form matt giteau which helped his game. Although they definetly shouldn't have played him so early.

 

[Rothschild]

Rotschild do you think JOC (James O'Connor) would have been better served playing club rugby and then making the step up this year to Super 14 like Morahan?

IMHO i think JOC (James O'Connor) was one of the rare cases that the exposure has probably helped him develop as a player. Especially because he was playing with an in form matt giteau which helped his game. Although they definetly shouldn't have played him so early.

Maybe, but when you look at some of the defensive blunders, one has to wonder it it was right. To quote Lee on one occasion,I think it was against the AB's in HK, he looked like a deer in the headlights.
But he learned, is a great footballer and all the luck to him.
Aside, on the wing I will prefer Moraghan to JOC (James O'Connor) any day.

 

[Lee Grant]

Horne was special - but correct me if i'm wrong that JOC (James O'Connor) couldn't make the run on schoolboys side - wow the selctors in hindsight sure got it wrong

About getting it wrong: that's not the truth Truth. It's hindsight.

He wouldn't have made the starting Oz Schools Ones team on merit going by how he played in the 2007 Schools tournament if watching every game of it makes me any judge. He played 13 mainly for Qld I Schools and had one non-competition game at 10 when he overplayed his hand.

As a 13 he would never have been picked above Horne who was incidentally the MOTM against NZ Schools. Nor would he have been thought of as a 12 in front of Ben Tapuai. Winger in front of Zipper and Tomane? I don't think so. Fullback ahead of Aidan Toua? Never in life.

He was picked where he belonged: on the bench, where his reasonable form and outstanding versatility indicated he should be.

It's a hindsight thing based on how boys are doing now. To quote myself when responding to another poster yonks ago:

Hindsight has a certain malign accuracy. We would be better off without it.

 

[Lee Grant]

To quote Lee on one occasion,I think it was against the AB's in HK, he looked like a deer in the headlights..

I think that was in 2009 when he was started at fullback at the Cake Tin - he had a nightmare.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

About getting it wrong: that's not the truth Truth. It's hindsight.

He wouldn't have made the starting Oz Schools Ones team on merit going by how he played in the 2007 Schools tournament if watching every game of it makes me any judge. He played 13 mainly for Qld I Schools and had one non-competition game at 10 when he overplayed his hand.

As a 13 he would never have been picked above Horne who was incidentally the MOTM against NZ Schools. Nor would he have been thought of as a 12 in front of Ben Tapuai. Winger in front of Zipper and Tomane? I don't think so. Fullback ahead of Aidan Toua? Never in life.

He was picked where he belonged: on the bench, where his reasonable form and outstanding versatility indicated he should be.

It's a hindsight thing based on how boys are doing now. To quote myself when responding to another poster yonks ago:

Hindsight has a certain malign accuracy. We would be better off without it.

Pat Langtry (Aust Schools coach) use to rave on about a group of players he was adamant would form the next generation of Wallabies post RWC '11. This was the core of the 2005 Australia Schoolboys team (7 in current squad).

From other playing groups he single out A.Fainga'a ’04 and J.O’Connor ’07 as future greats. He use to eagerly show scouted schoolboy and training highlights of O’Connor in excitement on his future as a Wallaby great.. for some to say he was overlooked as a schoolboy is far from reality.

 

[Lee Grant]

O'Connor certainly wasn't overlooked, that's for sure. When he was in the U/16s he was a sensation. Here was this young bloke who looked like the little sister of the ball boy running rings around everybody. It's hard sometimes to remember what you thought about a young chap at the time when he has progressed after he has left school but I wrote in my programme: "13 - small 10 from Nudgee - elusive - busy rabbit - Eels scholarship - halfback - wow."


But if I put my hand on my heart I couldn't say that I thought then that he was going to be a Wallaby, nor the following year when he was in the Opens. He was tiny and didn't look like he would be robust enough when he was older to play halfback, which was the position I had designated for him because of his size. I thought he was going to league and was happy when the Force signed him. It's nice to be wrong about him, but I'd warrant that the Parramatta officials at the time, who didn't want him either because they didn't think he was big enough for rugby league, won't have the same feelings now as I do. Big mistake Eeels guys; huge.


As for coach Langtry's 2005 schools side: I didn't think then that so many lads would be Wallabies - wrong again. If I had one thought about them it was that the 4 flyhalves of that year would have an influence a few years later. Beale and Cooper were in the Ones and Lucas and Lealiifano (the Ones flyhalves from the previous year) were in the Twos.


They were smacked by NZ Schools (who had Sam Whitelock and Owen Franks) in Canberra and were beaten a few times on their EOYT in Europe, though to be fair: they had to play against a few under age teams including some buffed up lads who had been in academies and had left school months before.


You always knew that Beale and Pocock would play for Australia one day (if Beale stayed in the union code) and the Newington fullback, Turner, looked like definite Super14 material.


Of the others 3. Daley didn't come up on the radar but nor do most schoolboy props. Cooper from the Oz Schools reserves was on the radar because I had met a few of the Churchie parents who were talking him up at the Schools tournament, but he was only in the reserves of the Qld I team and he didn't take my eye to be honest. Later for Oz Schools though, when he came off the bench to play flyhalf and Beale went to fullback, you could see something a bit special.


McCutcheon was going to be too small to be a senior no.8 and though the raw boned no.6 McCalman, the country lad from Kinross, was a good rough talent you woudn't think then that he was going to be a Super14 player for sure.


The player I had most interest in was Brett Stapleton; would the 10.27 secs sprinter become a good enough footie player to be a Wallaby? [Oh yes, we were googling even then and we knew his two great times.]


As a schools rugby fan you don't know the boys as well as a fellow like the coach, Langtry. When this fellow stops his involvement with the sport one day he should be well satisfied with his contribution to Oz Schools rugby, and by extension - to Oz rugby generally.


Fellows like him are like gold dust to our game. There's a book in that somewhere: one that outlines the contribution of certain individuals at the schools level in a way that had a positive influence on the sport. Langtry would be in that book and guys like Brother Henry and Geoff Mould too.


Ash Hennessy, who played for NSW and coached at Waverley, Kings and Riverview would have a chapter to himself, even though he was a founder of the ARL and the Rabbitohs and was the first NSW rugby league captain. He was the genesis of the Randwick way of running rugby through his Waverley pupils and disciples Meagher and Towers. Thus his influence on Oz rugby was enormous.