Australian Rugby / RA

[Ignoto]

hink this will encourage the opposite, Steel sharpens steel, the ABs will look for more tier 1 competition, which (as hard as it is to say), Australian right is not, and doesn’t appear will be in the next 10 years

What happens if SA regress to the shit show they were outside of Jake White and Rassie where the All Blacks pumped them and the Saffers were consistently at the bottom of the tri-nations.

The current Bok team is reaching it's age limit, Rassie is bloody crook so who knows how well the next team will translate the current success into future success.

So it's silly to be locking yourself into these types of tours in the future.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Agreed. Few things are permanent and let's not forget that the while the Saffers are on top now, they've had some ordinary moments in the last 10-15 years. They've been wooden spooners 11 times in the combined 3N/RC!

 

[Mick The Munch]

What happens if SA regress to the shit show they were outside of Jake White and Rassie where the All Blacks pumped them and the Saffers were consistently at the bottom of the tri-nations.

The current Bok team is reaching it's age limit, Rassie is bloody crook so who knows how well the next team will translate the current success into future success.

So it's silly to be locking yourself into these types of tours in the future.

I think they've only confirmed the 2026, '30 tour right?

 

[Dan54]

I think they've only confirmed the 2026, '30 tour right?

As I pointed out a few posts ago. It's only 2 tours. Besides noone knows what happens after 2031 yet.

 

[Agent]

So where to for Australian rugby?

- Rugby seems to be hemorrhaging money and relying on TV deals to stay afloat and waiting anxiously for the Lions tour and RWC which will be money spinners that come around rarely.
- We are extremely top heavy with our budget spending. Professional rugby seems to get all the cash injection but our results in recent years have not been great. It is becoming harder to convince supporters / sponsors to get on board.
- NZ and the Saffas seem to be making their own international plans going forward regarding a limited TRC.
- Super Rugby is dying in Oz and we have no NPC / Currie Cup
- 4 professional Super Rugby sides means only about 160 professional contracts working on 40 contracts each club.
- AFL and RL have hugely more contracted players and opportunities. 17 NRL clubs at 35 players each is 600 contracts, 18 AFL clubs at 40 players each is 720 contracts. Not to mention NSW Cup, Qld Cup, VFL, SAFL, WAFL etc etc. The figures are no where near exact but you get the picture.
- We do have a good amateur / semi professional club scene especially in Sydney / Brisbane. I'd love to see a national club scene sometime somehow.
- We also have strong schoolboy competitions. Some people may not like the way these comps are structured but there are great long standing rivalries which supporters love.
- Schoolboy and club rugby draw good crowds. Professional rugby, away from international rugby, struggles.
- There is a disconnect with players exiting schoolboy level and not ready for the professional level. There is not enough opportunities / pathways to retain players.
- Club rugby in France / Japan seems to be more lucrative and enticing for young players.
- How do we get our great game on the right track?

 

[LeCheese]

So where to for Australian rugby?

https://imgur.com/wsgOJqy

 

[John S]

Oh oh....................

 

[Mick The Munch]

So where to for Australian rugby?

- Rugby seems to be hemorrhaging money and relying on TV deals to stay afloat and waiting anxiously for the Lions tour and RWC which will be money spinners that come around rarely.
- We are extremely top heavy with our budget spending. Professional rugby seems to get all the cash injection but our results in recent years have not been great. It is becoming harder to convince supporters / sponsors to get on board.
- NZ and the Saffas seem to be making their own international plans going forward regarding a limited TRC.
- Super Rugby is dying in Oz and we have no NPC / Currie Cup
- 4 professional Super Rugby sides means only about 160 professional contracts working on 40 contracts each club.
- AFL and RL have hugely more contracted players and opportunities. 17 NRL clubs at 35 players each is 600 contracts, 18 AFL clubs at 40 players each is 720 contracts. Not to mention NSW Cup, Qld Cup, VFL, SAFL, WAFL etc etc. The figures are no where near exact but you get the picture.
- We do have a good amateur / semi professional club scene especially in Sydney / Brisbane. I'd love to see a national club scene sometime somehow.
- We also have strong schoolboy competitions. Some people may not like the way these comps are structured but there are great long standing rivalries which supporters love.
- Schoolboy and club rugby draw good crowds. Professional rugby, away from international rugby, struggles.
- There is a disconnect with players exiting schoolboy level and not ready for the professional level. There is not enough opportunities / pathways to retain players.
- Club rugby in France / Japan seems to be more lucrative and enticing for young players.
- How do we get our great game on the right track?

I'd argue that the game is doing fine at grass roots - was at the Dewar shield final a couple of weeks ago - outstanding atmosphere. It's the professional game that's f@cked, and still run by the people who have been aiming at the iceberg for years - it's not going to change with the same people at the helm. Stick to goign to club rugby and your life will be infinitely happier

 

[Strewthcobber]

I'd argue that the game is doing fine at grass roots - was at the Dewar shield final a couple of weeks ago - outstanding atmosphere. It's the professional game that's f@cked, and still run by the people who have been aiming at the iceberg for years - it's not going to change with the same people at the helm. Stick to goign to club rugby and your life will be infinitely happier

*Western-sydney excluded

 

[Mick The Munch]

*Western-sydney excluded

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I went and watched the club grand finals on the weekend here in Perth, held at one of the local clubs (Kalamunda this year). Stacks of people across the three fields and a bumper crowd for the first grade GF (which was a cracking game).

I don't know quite how we do it, but connecting those people with the professional game is how we improve the code here.

 

[Joe Blow]

The Saffas have an endless stream of young players coming up through the ranks. If you think they will all of a sudden drop down the rankings when the older players in this team start to retire, think again. Already they are starting younger players at 9, 10 and 15 ahead of their well established world champs, and this against the All Blacks. They are already starting to rebuild from a position of incredible strength. NZ also have a lot of young depth to choose from.
We need to address the grass roots and invest there with a view to being strong again 10 years from now with a sustainable model. This article from the Roar is interesting

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/09/09/ra-shouldnt-target-nrl-stars-they-should-go-after-the-players-who-didnt-quite-make-it-to-the-top/

 

[Joe Blow]

If we are going to bring over league players now then targeting superstars like Suuali for millions of dollars is ridiculous, not to mention that we cannot afford it. We need some beefy centres that can defend all day and break tackles before offloading. They are a dime a dozen in league. Pull a couple of such mid range players and offer them a respectable deal. Target some young larger squarer shaped league second rowers that are a touch slow to make it in league and convert them to props at a young age. These are stop gap short term measures but ideally we change our own grass roots structures and build from the bottom up.

 

[Dan54]

I went and watched the club grand finals on the weekend here in Perth, held at one of the local clubs (Kalamunda this year). Stacks of people across the three fields and a bumper crowd for the first grade GF (which was a cracking game).

I don't know quite how we do it, but connecting those people with the professional game is how we improve the code here.

Hard to beat that kind of thing isn't it. Only thing I would say, you need those people at ALL club games, not just finals?

 

[Wallaby Man]

A few things on recent posts.

Grassroots is struggling, it’s only at the premier level that it isn’t, and just that is been judged from a sample size in finals and not every week matches. I can only speak for QLD and Vic but outside Premier grade in QLD some of the competitions are a shadow of what they were, with many clubs that used to have several grades only playing one or 2 teams, and some of them choosing not to put a team in the top division. The GC for example used to have 3 full grades with every club, now some clubs only have 1 or 2 teams. In Victoria Dewar level is doing okay, but again same issue with some teams not able to fill several grades or forgoing putting teams in the top grade. I know this is a similar issue across many towns.

As food for thought, there is a strange phenomenon slowly happening in world rugby where the countries that aren’t senior participation based are slowly moving to the top of the tree. In RSA after university almost nobody plays the sport recreationally, same with Ireland and France doesn’t even have that level participation. Meanwhile Australia, NZ, Eng and Wales have been traditionally community based systems. They also seem to be the countries in most strife financially and struggling for public connection. You could almost say rugby league in this country has little emphasis on participation beyond junior teams, the NFL has no participation outside university. It might be unthinkable for some to contemplate but is this what true hyper professionalism looks like and is this what’s required in order to correctly have systems in place to filter elite talent through and correctly dedicate resources and time to climb to the top of the tree in 2024?

 

[Slim 293]

This should generate a few pages…

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/09/10/exclusive-on-day-wright-was-named-wallabies-captain-he-was-snubbed-for-a-top-up-ras-contract-confusion/

On the same day Liam Wright was named Wallabies captain in July, the Queensland Reds stalwart and skipper received a new one-year contract.
However, as The Roar can reveal, one crucial element of the contract was absent: no national top up was included.

It also left Wright perplexed and disappointed, especially given others like Charlie Gamble, who has yet to feature in Joe Schmidt’s Wallabies squad, received a small top-up earlier this year.

Indeed, off-contract Reds star Jordan Petaia is seemingly the latest to be cast off by RA.

The 24-year-old might be about to audaciously try and switch codes to the NFL early next year, but the shoddy lines of communication have continued with the two-time World Cup member.

The Western Force recently attempted to make the Reds’ back an offer, but the Super Rugby franchise couldn’t get a response from RA as to whether they would tip money into the deal to sign him.

It’s something that has left the Force livid, especially given Dylan Pietsch’s desire to head west has been knocked on its head by the national body.

 

[stoff]

As food for thought, there is a strange phenomenon slowly happening in world rugby where the countries that aren’t senior participation based are slowly moving to the top of the tree. In RSA after university almost nobody plays the sport recreationally, same with Ireland and France doesn’t even have that level participation. Meanwhile Australia, NZ, Eng and Wales have been traditionally community based systems. They also seem to be the countries in most strife financially and struggling for public connection. You could almost say rugby league in this country has little emphasis on participation beyond junior teams, the NFL has no participation outside university. It might be unthinkable for some to contemplate but is this what true hyper professionalism looks like and is this what’s required in order to correctly have systems in place to filter elite talent through and correctly dedicate resources and time to climb to the top of the tree in 2024?

France has a 10 level rugby system with over 1000 clubs below pro level. Ireland has a 50-club national league in a relatively small country which has other more popular sports. Down in Victoria community AFL is still massive outside of some country towns, and that decline is more to do with demographic shift. Professionalism and community sport aren't exclusive - you just need the money or will to do it properly.

 

[Wilson]

This should generate a few pages…

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/09/10/exclusive-on-day-wright-was-named-wallabies-captain-he-was-snubbed-for-a-top-up-ras-contract-confusion/

Parts of it I understand and sympathize with, particularly picking up the pieces of last year and still needing to get the new contracting model in place (which has been a shit show in and of itself), but Charlie Gamble getting a top up? Why on earth would we spend money on a guy who has never looked higher than 3rd or 4th string 7 in a field where we have so many good candidates?

 

[Brumby Runner]

If the Wright and Petaia situations are correct as reported, it smacks a bit of payback for the Reds helping to undermine RA's plan for the collectivism of rugby during the year. We all know RA has had minimal interest in the Force over the years and that looks to be their approach to the Brumbies now too. Did anyone ever get to the bottom of stories about RA being behind the exclusion of Jahrome Brown and Tamati Tua from the Brumbies? Really fertile ground for conspiracy theories atm.

 

[KOB1987]

Parts of it I understand and sympathize with, particularly picking up the pieces of last year and still needing to get the new contracting model in place (which has been a shit show in and of itself), but Charlie Gamble getting a top up? Why on earth would we spend money on a guy who has never looked higher than 3rd or 4th string 7 in a field where we have so many good candidates?

I don't think he should be getting a top up either, but it does say 'earlier this year' and that it's only small, so maybe it just happened to be at a time he was playing well and was a bit higher up on Joe's 'possibles' list. Wright should definitely be getting one though, and I'd say he will whenever the next round is.