Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
"A Wallaby Hall Of Fame inductee should be listened to" - Brumby Jack
Careful, Campo is also in the Hall of Fame.
Careful, Campo is also in the Hall of Fame.
Australia vs South Africa - Brisbane 7th Sept 2013
- Thread starter PaarlBok
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We had Deans panned for playing tight and limiting turnovers by playing tight limited rugby
So we change coaches and now we play with more width but because of that our lazy un-athletic forwards and backs are being out enthused by oppositions who just want to get to the next breakdown more.
We then add a game plan that entails the 10 running laterally, offering no threat ball in hand and throwing catch it anybody passes if he gets near contact - meh, a winger to kick for line who can't kick accurately etc etc
In the end we were rubbish, I have no idea what game plan ever includes not catching the ball and not cleaning out and not competing
I can cope with losing, I can't cope seeing my team being out enthused and showing nothing
But I feel better for venting
Sent from a tiny evil keyboard
So we change coaches and now we play with more width but because of that our lazy un-athletic forwards and backs are being out enthused by oppositions who just want to get to the next breakdown more.
We then add a game plan that entails the 10 running laterally, offering no threat ball in hand and throwing catch it anybody passes if he gets near contact - meh, a winger to kick for line who can't kick accurately etc etc
In the end we were rubbish, I have no idea what game plan ever includes not catching the ball and not cleaning out and not competing
I can cope with losing, I can't cope seeing my team being out enthused and showing nothing
But I feel better for venting
Sent from a tiny evil keyboard
Brumby Jack
Steve Williams (59)
You're right. What I should have said is 'THIS Wallaby Hall Of Fame inductee should be listened to.'
Richo
John Thornett (49)
On all this "talking about the backs" stuff. Part of the problem is that it's easier to understand what backs do and how they impact the game. But that's the easy answer. With the backs, we actually have guys who might make a difference. Who are the forwards that could be brought in to change things up? We are pretty fucking thin on the ground in that department. Robinson, Timani, Carter, Dennis -- are any of those guys really going to change things substantively?
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
That's a great spray from Noddy. The poor bloke was getting a bit emotional and I can understand why. He was an exemplar of the great Wallaby footy of yore and it must eat him up inside to see the Wallaby reputation tarnished as it is right now. I never played for Australia and it eats me up!
I also think his point about blokes getting too comfortable is a valid one. They just don't seem to want it enough at the moment.
I also think his point about blokes getting too comfortable is a valid one. They just don't seem to want it enough at the moment.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I think Noddy hit it on the head: these guys are too comfortable. It is completely wrong that Beiber should be able to get over a loss before the full time bell.
One thing Deans said was that at this level you never know when you've played your last game: that should be how they feel.
JOC (James O'Connor)'s behaviour seems to suggest either that he knows he'll play for the Wobs again or that he doesn't care.
He should have been thinking "fuck - what if we (I) never get to make this appalling display up to the people of Brisbane".
They should all be thinking that.
I see schoolboys who care more about losing than the Wobblies do - and guess what? those schoolboys are doing it for personal pride, not the pride of a nation and they're not getting paid.
On the backs versus forwards thing: I can well understand why QC (Quade Cooper) is standing still - he doesn't know what particular type of shit is going to get dished up so standing still gives him more chance of covering whatever dodgy ball comes his way.
Winning and losing starts in the pigs so why not start the rebuilding there? Unfortunately i think the only immediate solution lies between the ears of the players.
One thing Deans said was that at this level you never know when you've played your last game: that should be how they feel.
JOC (James O'Connor)'s behaviour seems to suggest either that he knows he'll play for the Wobs again or that he doesn't care.
He should have been thinking "fuck - what if we (I) never get to make this appalling display up to the people of Brisbane".
They should all be thinking that.
I see schoolboys who care more about losing than the Wobblies do - and guess what? those schoolboys are doing it for personal pride, not the pride of a nation and they're not getting paid.
On the backs versus forwards thing: I can well understand why QC (Quade Cooper) is standing still - he doesn't know what particular type of shit is going to get dished up so standing still gives him more chance of covering whatever dodgy ball comes his way.
Winning and losing starts in the pigs so why not start the rebuilding there? Unfortunately i think the only immediate solution lies between the ears of the players.
Dam0
Dave Cowper (27)
Yep well said. Can't add much to that, except that you don't need all your forwards to be mongrels, but do you need a few, and you need all of them to have that potential to go feral if the need should arise.
Just look at a guy like Brodie Retallic. He's a guy you wouldn't mess with in a hurry. He could be muscle for the mob. Kieran Read is another. I'm struggling to think of anyone in the Wallabies who could compare; Fardy or Higgers are about the only ones. It helps if you are a bit ugly as well.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
The Red Baron
Chilla Wilson (44)
You make some good points IS. I actually was reminded of a particular occasion during my schoolboys days. Went through the season undefeated, apart from the final game. Upon losing that game, I was filthy. I could still shake the other teams hands, and show I was a good sport, but god I was angry. I am actually worried that losing has become a habit with this lot.
I also think there is no accountability. Guys are putting in sub par performances and they are not being held accountable for it. Unfortunately, I believe this is an organisational issue. The performances we are seeing on the national stage are a symptom of an issue with the system. Quite frankly, the whole rugby structure in Australia needs a transparent, independent review. And for fucks sakes, the recommendations have to actually be followed. Not half heartedly implemented like the recommendations from the Argus review. I'm talking Fitzgerald inquiry type stuff.
What I am most dismayed about is the forwards total inability to operate as a unit. I read Bob's article today, and he is right about how we used to do more with less. There is one point of difference though; our pack is weak, unfit and lazy. Previous Australian packs might not have been able to go toe to toe with opposing packs, but they made up for it in technique and athleticism. They didn't play as individuals - strength in numbers.
It is much harder for someone to blow you off your ball when 2-3 blokes are crashing over the ball carrier as soon as he goes down. Much easier to get momentum when the ball carrier goes into contact and 2-3 forwards are instantly up his arse, driving him a good 5-10 metres before going to ground. Quick recycle, and all of a sudden the opposition are backpedalling. The 2-3 forwards who weren't at the previous ruck take the next one. Teach a good technique and the opposition wont be able to get anywhere near the ball. Punish anyone who tries.
And get Nic White on. As cyclopath mentioned earlier, it might be a good idea to rest Genia for a bit. It also has the added bonus of Nic White's boot. We actually have a decent lineout. It needs to be used as a weapon. The only way that we can effectively use our lineout as a weapon is if we are raking in 40-50 metre kicks for touch. Then we are in the opposition red zone and they have to make the decision to to either contest or not. Put them in two minds! We also need our scrumhalf to constantly be in the piggies ear's, telling where they should be. I'm not seeing that direction from Genia at the moment.
Ok, that's my final rant on the subject (for the moment).
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Even sadder if you are not looking forward to Those Magnificent Men playing the golden (and blue) boys.
The Red Baron
Chilla Wilson (44)
Great point Dam0 . I tend to judge forward effectiveness (particularly front row forwards) by cauliflower ears. If they don't have any, they are not trying hard enough.
I can't find a single cauliflower ear among this lot. The only one I know of is Pocock. His cauliflower ears were coming along quite nicely before he was injured. This means his cauliflower ear development has been somewhat stymied.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Agreed. I've maintained for many years that you need at least a couple of blokes in the pack who have that mongrel, that really abrasive edge to them. When things get a bit tasty or a bit tough in a tight game, these are the blokes who will step and put the fear of God into their opposition. It's not like we haven't had them before either. Guys like Poidevin, Scott-Young, Harrison, Coker, Elsom (at times) and Finegan are exactly the kind of wild dog you need in the forwards to sort a few blokes out. Higgers could be that guy and so could Fardy, but we're lacking them at the moment.
nugget
Jimmy Flynn (14)
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Yes. Having blokes in a team with a chip on their shoulder due to the colour of their hair is key. They can take those years of frustration out on their opposition.
Maybe some of the team don't care enough, because they are only playing for Australia via a technicality(e.g. cooper NZ born but playing for oz)..I wonder if this impacts on the "pride" "mongrel", "disappointment" after a loss in playing for the country you weren't born in? ( not trying to bring in a race or politics thing here either) but genuinely want to know if they care less as the patriotism thing is not there?
Also being paid a lot of money and as Michael Lynagh mentioned get to comfortable. Maybe with all the big money on offer and the known fact of if it does not work out they can play in Europe for more.
Seems the Australian cricket team have a problem like this now. Guys can play in the 20/20 2 months a year and not worry about test cricket nor care because they signed 1.2 mil contract for 20/20.
Also being paid a lot of money and as Michael Lynagh mentioned get to comfortable. Maybe with all the big money on offer and the known fact of if it does not work out they can play in Europe for more.
Seems the Australian cricket team have a problem like this now. Guys can play in the 20/20 2 months a year and not worry about test cricket nor care because they signed 1.2 mil contract for 20/20.
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
One of the best statements I've seen about pro sport, thanks BR. Loved the comment about being a rock star: "yeah but you have to be good". Yep, that's how it works for nearly every other profession. Talent alone generally won't get you to the top of your game. Performance in the end is what counts and if you aren't performing day in day out, year after year you get cast aside or you hit a plateau.
In sport now you can be a talented kid playing at schoolboys level and then be playing Super rugby the following year (e.g. O'Connor). That talent and/or potential can maybe carry you all the way to the test team. What keeps you there is being consistently test class and a few of these young blokes don't seem to have the work ethic to take that next step, be world class and win the Bledisloe, win TRC, beat the Poms, win the World Cup. That top two inches is what separates the very good players from the greatest and we don't have enough of them in our rugby team right now.
In sport now you can be a talented kid playing at schoolboys level and then be playing Super rugby the following year (e.g. O'Connor). That talent and/or potential can maybe carry you all the way to the test team. What keeps you there is being consistently test class and a few of these young blokes don't seem to have the work ethic to take that next step, be world class and win the Bledisloe, win TRC, beat the Poms, win the World Cup. That top two inches is what separates the very good players from the greatest and we don't have enough of them in our rugby team right now.
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