USARugger
John Thornett (49)
fatprop
I was really talking about general play but the same logic applies to the scrum when it's going backwards I guess.
How do you reckon the #9 dive passing helps the #10 go forward when the scrum is going backwards though? I've only ever really been taught the dive pass as a tool to get the ball out in a way that makes it very hard to pressure or interrupt the #9s pass. I'm guessing you're talking bout using the dive pass as opposed to the 8-9-10 juggle?
If that's the case then yeah I agree with you there. As was mentioned earlier it worked for the Reds because Genia was hitting the ball moving and Digby was also offering himself on the inside to hold the 7/8 closer to the scrum.
Working as a unit in any facet of play would be a big step up for the forwards as well as the entire team this weekends. We made the Bok forwards look even more powerful than they are by repeatedly taking them on 1v2/3. 'Teamwork' seems to be a bit of an issue in all facets of the game right now. I really don't
think we have a genuinely good 'combination' anywhere on the park right now.
Back to general play and getting blasted in the tackle though..it really is ridiculous to criticize a 10 for not being at pace when he gets the ball when the backs are realigning on the back foot every phase or two. Shit, being static when the ball comes is actually and improvement from where they were a second before the ball gets out.
Regardless my 2c on To'omua/Cooper are that neither have been particularly impressive so far. Cooper did an awful lot of shoveling on before he started to chance his hand when we were chasing the score and he began racking up the errors. If we can't get him playing the style we know he can WITHOUT the disproportionate amount of errors (seriously there are just way too many for what little we have been getting out of these moves as of late) is there much point in keeping him? On the other hand To'omua got sledged for the same kind of shoveling in Bledisloe I but seemed far more assured in Bled II. That said, he wasn't lighting the world on fire either.
I think the answer may be that we just simply do not have a world-class 10 (at the moment) in Australia. Cooper has never been 'world-class' for more than 40 minutes at a time at test level and To'omua is still largely an unknown quantity at test level. When you break down the numbers though the chances of Australia actually even having a world class 10 are really quite low. Our depth and internal structure are absolutely laughable compared to NZ and SA and we are paying the piper for this now.
I've found myself caught up in this mindset many times that we either already have a world beater in position X or that if we don't, there is one waiting to be discovered. But when you take a population in the 20s (millions) and then split it between multiple football codes you really cannot realistically expect to have the same cattle as nations with a larger general population who hold rugby in higher regard or those who worship it as a religion.
Couple this fact with our comparatively weaker domestic comp and it is all no wonder. We can't even really gauge how much talent we DO have because our grassroots needs a Iifeline all over the country and we lack a proper 3rd tier.
Hopefully I'm entirely wrong and this isn't a long-term systemic issue we are now feeling the hurt from. Either way with the state of Australian Rugby Union at the grassroots and domestic level coupled with the sheer weight of numbers we cannot realistically expect to have class players in any position right now, much less one of the most technical and nuanced positions in the entire game.
I'm sorry if I've repeated myself, typing on the mobile as I ride the train.
I was really talking about general play but the same logic applies to the scrum when it's going backwards I guess.
How do you reckon the #9 dive passing helps the #10 go forward when the scrum is going backwards though? I've only ever really been taught the dive pass as a tool to get the ball out in a way that makes it very hard to pressure or interrupt the #9s pass. I'm guessing you're talking bout using the dive pass as opposed to the 8-9-10 juggle?
If that's the case then yeah I agree with you there. As was mentioned earlier it worked for the Reds because Genia was hitting the ball moving and Digby was also offering himself on the inside to hold the 7/8 closer to the scrum.
Working as a unit in any facet of play would be a big step up for the forwards as well as the entire team this weekends. We made the Bok forwards look even more powerful than they are by repeatedly taking them on 1v2/3. 'Teamwork' seems to be a bit of an issue in all facets of the game right now. I really don't
think we have a genuinely good 'combination' anywhere on the park right now.
Back to general play and getting blasted in the tackle though..it really is ridiculous to criticize a 10 for not being at pace when he gets the ball when the backs are realigning on the back foot every phase or two. Shit, being static when the ball comes is actually and improvement from where they were a second before the ball gets out.
Regardless my 2c on To'omua/Cooper are that neither have been particularly impressive so far. Cooper did an awful lot of shoveling on before he started to chance his hand when we were chasing the score and he began racking up the errors. If we can't get him playing the style we know he can WITHOUT the disproportionate amount of errors (seriously there are just way too many for what little we have been getting out of these moves as of late) is there much point in keeping him? On the other hand To'omua got sledged for the same kind of shoveling in Bledisloe I but seemed far more assured in Bled II. That said, he wasn't lighting the world on fire either.
I think the answer may be that we just simply do not have a world-class 10 (at the moment) in Australia. Cooper has never been 'world-class' for more than 40 minutes at a time at test level and To'omua is still largely an unknown quantity at test level. When you break down the numbers though the chances of Australia actually even having a world class 10 are really quite low. Our depth and internal structure are absolutely laughable compared to NZ and SA and we are paying the piper for this now.
I've found myself caught up in this mindset many times that we either already have a world beater in position X or that if we don't, there is one waiting to be discovered. But when you take a population in the 20s (millions) and then split it between multiple football codes you really cannot realistically expect to have the same cattle as nations with a larger general population who hold rugby in higher regard or those who worship it as a religion.
Couple this fact with our comparatively weaker domestic comp and it is all no wonder. We can't even really gauge how much talent we DO have because our grassroots needs a Iifeline all over the country and we lack a proper 3rd tier.
Hopefully I'm entirely wrong and this isn't a long-term systemic issue we are now feeling the hurt from. Either way with the state of Australian Rugby Union at the grassroots and domestic level coupled with the sheer weight of numbers we cannot realistically expect to have class players in any position right now, much less one of the most technical and nuanced positions in the entire game.
I'm sorry if I've repeated myself, typing on the mobile as I ride the train.
