Australia vs South Africa - Brisbane 7th Sept 2013

[ACT Crusader]

Maybe some of the team don't care enough, because they are only playing for Australia via a technicality(e.g. cooper NZ born but playing for oz)..I wonder if this impacts on the "pride" "mongrel", "disappointment" after a loss in playing for the country you weren't born in? ( not trying to bring in a race or politics thing here either) but genuinely want to know if they care less as the patriotism thing is not there?

Also being paid a lot of money and as Michael Lynagh mentioned get to comfortable. Maybe with all the big money on offer and the known fact of if it does not work out they can play in Europe for more.

Seems the Australian cricket team have a problem like this now. Guys can play in the 20/20 2 months a year and not worry about test cricket nor care because they signed 1.2 mil contract for 20/20.

There is no "technicality" with Cooper though. He chose to make himself eligible to play for QLD. He could've chosen another path but he didn't and I don't think that really is the issue.

I think the thing I got out of Noddy's comments is the lack of competition on spots. Who is putting pressure on Mowen and Moore for their spots? What about Lilo or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)? These guys and others are not absolute standouts at the minute that should demand automatic selection. But there is no pressure on them it seems from that next group of players.

I've maintained for some years now - and I have followed OZ rugby quite closely for many years - but they have always been able to put out a very competitive 22-25 players. However when there are injuries or form slumps it gets very difficult to fill those voids and this impacts on performance greatly - ie out of form players are still selected. I remember some years ago much to Marshall's displeasure he was benched for Kelleher. Kelleher's form was very good and yet we had a veteran halfback, who at that point was the most prolific try scorer of any AB halfback but was dropped in the late 90s because he was surpassed on form. Now to Marshall's credit he worked on his game and got that stating spot back under Wayne Smith and then Mitchell.

Good luck to the Wallabies next week.

 

[Athilnaur]

My impressions now that I have had time to think about it.

Overall the first half was positive. I could see what the team was trying to do, and I felt that while it hadn't gone their way they were playing positive rugby. Some odd ref decisions all round and poor runs of play by the Wallabies but I was upbeat.

During the break I saw something remarkable. Looking at the Boks changing rooms I saw an engaged and attentive team circled closely around the animated coaches. Then the cameras switched to the Wallabies. Players looked flat and few seemed to be listening. McKenzie was sitting and talking quietly. The body language reeked of defeat and I saw little from McKenzie to tell me he was turning that round.

In the second half the wheels fell off.

The chart below has a look at some of the heavily discussed elements of the game - rucks and mauls and turnovers.

Rucks, Mauls Tackles and Turnovers

As you can see two things were killing us and they are related. We still had a lot of turnovers relative to the Boks, but we started to fall off tackles, badly. In fact the slump was immense, from 88% completion to 71%.

Earlier I implied that I felt the game may have been lost in the changing shed. That may have been true, but there is something else to consider.

Kicking, Running showdown

If that feels like deja vu, it is because it is. Yet again we have done all the running and let the opposition outkick us. So what you may ask, overall the metres even up more or less. Well, the trouble of course is we are working a lot harder for those metres and when the strategy calls for you to run even more in the second half, as the Wallabies did, 60% more in fact, well no surprises if you run out of energy. Especially while compensating for a missing Hooper at 50 minutes. And we saw a rash of tries in the 60-68 minute period. Interestingly, Hooper never tackled again after the sin bin but there is a long list of people who were lacklustre in tackling.

Some are calling for Cooper to go. I can understand the argument he wasn't that bad, but for me the question for Cooper is like Genia. You have them there for the running game. If that isn't working, and it clearly wasn't, a better platform with some sound kicking makes a lot of sense. Cue To'omua and White, and yes, Mogg.

A lot of the forwards issues will be solved by a more conservative plan that isn't running your players into the ground.

Alternatively we ride out the losses trying to build a team that runs a lot a la Chieka, but I'd ask why there aren't a lot more Tahs or Rebels in there if that is the goal? They are the Aussie teams that have been playing running rugby. And I fear it will be a long year of losses trying even if we did inject more players from those teams.

TL;DR - We need to kick more. Or get more Tahs and Rebels in. Or both.

 

[Richo]

Kinda in line with this and what Michael Lynagh was saying..

And the consequences for the NBA for paying potentials were not good. It's taken them 10 years to turn the system around and make sure that you had to be good first again.

 

[USARugger]

Scott Allen for Wallabies Forwards Coach. Make it happen.

In a seriousness though all I want to see next week is black eyes, broken noses, flat backs and driving legs. I disagree with you Richo that backs play is simpler than forwards play, you just don't have to zoom in and go frame-by-frame as often to see where things go wrong in the backs.

Forwards play really is fucking simple. Maintain your body shape, retain the fucking ball and play like the other team ran train in your baby sister the night before.

It is beyond embarrassing watching our forwards get pushed around that way.

How often do you see our forwards leaving the field with blood or a busted nose and when was the last time you saw an opposing forward doing the same? I'm not sure if this is accurate in a literal sense but shit it are feels like one way traffic.

I think the answer to the above question speaks volumes about the state of our forward pack.

 

[Dan54]

After thinking on comments etc of tests lately,and some of comments here about attitude not being absolutely 100%, I seem to recall after 2011 WC Genia saying he thought the idea of playing overseas and experiencing different lifestyles was relly appealing to him. I wonder if perhaps he should of followed up on that, as I don't really think he has scaled the heights he had before that time, and maybe the break would of been good for him. Not blaming Genia for losses or poor play by any means, just a little perplexed that he seems tp be struggling at moment, and doesn't really look like he's really enjoying playing.
Ok just another random thought that popped into head.

 

[mark_s]

My impressions now that I have had time to think about it.

Awesome post Athilnaur, worthy of a front page blog.

I also think there is a level of disinterest (although maybe thats too harsh). Another indicator (over the bombs hitting the ground) is the number of Wobbs just jogging around following the play, but not actually getting to the current contest. I'm worried they think the game plan is to move the ball quickly so they are setting themselves up for the next play then once they fall behind, the heads drop and they start going for more high risk plays.

 

[Scrubber2050]

fuck that
- typical -always blame the forwards - were theyt on the grassy knoll as well
our backs are overpaid for what they do - dropped balls, missed tackles, no hard straight running, shit all libne breaks, fail to promote the ball to a player in a better position - on and on and on

 

[USARugger]

fuck that
- typical -always blame the forwards - were theyt on the grassy knoll as well
our backs are overpaid for what they do - dropped balls, missed tackles, no hard straight running, shit all libne breaks, fail to promote the ball to a player in a better position - on and on and on

I'm assuming this was in response to my post? I'm not saying the forwards were the only problem. Just the only problem I'm addressing with that post.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Quade was fine. No better or worse than To'omua. And anyone advocating anything different is pushing a personal bias.

No bias. Something was worse than the week before, I'm sure you'll agree. The ABs are still the strongest opposition and we (the Wallabies) were better in Bledisloe 2 than we were against the Saffas. The problem with Quade is that we still don't know, or agree, if he is the right option at 10 or not in test matches. This has happened because Deans refused to play him over the past couple of years. Consequently, since his return from injury, he is now an unknown proposition at test level. It is likely that we won't know, or there won't be consensus, if he still has the goods until probably after the EOYT.

 

[Braveheart81]

The problem with Quade is that we still don't know, or agree, if he is the right option at 10 or not in test matches. This has happened because Deans refused to play him over the past couple of years. Consequently, since his return from injury, he is now an unknown proposition at test level. It is likely that we won't know, or there won't be consensus, if he still has the goods until probably after the EOYT.

How is this a thing? Deans picked him extensively up until the end of the 2011 RWC when he got injured, picked him a couple of times after his return from injury in 2012 and then decided that he wasn't the man for the job in 2013.

I'd argue that his 2013 form in both Super Rugby and test rugby has indicated that Deans' decision was reasonable.

 

[The Red Baron]

fuck that
- typical -always blame the forwards - were theyt on the grassy knoll as well
our backs are overpaid for what they do - dropped balls, missed tackles, no hard straight running, shit all libne breaks, fail to promote the ball to a player in a better position - on and on and on

Yes, but the forwards set the platform. They are the ones who are responsible for delivering quick, clean ball for the backs to use. I understand your point about the backline, but when your forwards are copping a flogging it makes things so much harder.

The forwards have to bear the brunt of our recent losses. There is no way around it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yes, but the forwards set the platform. They are the ones who are responsible for delivering quick, clean ball for the backs to use. I understand your point about the backline, but when your forwards are copping a flogging it makes things so much harder.

The forwards have to bear the brunt of our recent losses. There is no way around it.

To take the old adage that the forwards decide who wins the game and the backs decide by how much, we'd be losing by a whole lot less if our backs could tackle and not make so many fundamental errors.

 

[daz]

Amazing. Not only do we have a nice little state-bias thing happening, but it has evolved (devolved?) into a bias between backs and forwards.

Forwards shit at the breakdown and scrums, backs shit at everything else.

QC (Quade Cooper) shit at 10, To'omua shit at 10. One less shit than the other depending on personal preference and (dare I say it) geographical location.

Yawn.

Take the argument the other way for a bit as a way of measuring the truth of the proposition - Was there anyone who played well against the Boks? Anyone who played out of their skin against the AB's?

Anyone who stood up in the last three games and claimed their spot for the rest of the year?

Did QC (Quade Cooper) or To'omua have a blinder in the 10 jumper when they both started?

Has anyone in the backs consistently passed to advantage or held the ball in contact over the gain line?

Has anyone in the forwards monstered their opposite number?

If the answer is no (and it is, BTW), then they have all played below par - QLDers, NSWmen, backs and forwards alike.

So what the fuck are we all talking about?

 

[Bullrush]

The thing about the To'omua v Cooper arguement is this:

We've seen what Cooper can do for the last 40(?)-odd Tests or so. There really sin't much unknown about what he brings to the table is there?

To'omua we've seen for 2 games against the world No. 1. He was poor in his debut and average in the 2nd. I'd have kept him against SA and again for the Argies. To my mind, I still don't really know if he's Tests standard. He may very well be but the only way to be able to tell from the last 2 games would be is he had absolute blinder, herculean efforts far and above what everyone else in his team showed. Likely? No much methinks.

To me, To'omua is still unknown at this level......

And I have no state bias.....I hate you all fairly equally

 

[daz]

And I have no state bias...I hate you all fairly equally

That consistency is a comfort to me, BR.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I am concerned about linkage between knee surgery and performance drop off.

Sanchez and QC (Quade Cooper) have not performed at the same level as we were accustomed from them after their time in Team Rehab.

The huge concern for the Wobs must be if Bam Bam will follow this trend on his return from Team Rehab.

If Pocock follows the form slump path that we have seen from Genia and Cooper, then we are in a bad place. Real bad.

 

[I like to watch]

I don't think it matters if Pocock is less confident about sidestepping,or loses a smidgen of pace,when he comes back.
Unless Link is planning on playing him at 9 or 10.

 

[Scrubber2050]

suppose i get frustrated that when a back misses a tackle,, oppositiobn goes around the outside, a dropped ball or 3, our backs don't break the line it still seems to be the forwards fault.
Think I will change my picy to Campese

 

[BPC]

"Inner core and stamina", while vital elements in Rugby, sound very much like a League focus.

Bruce, given your knowledge on strength training, perhaps you could explain to me what the inner core is, and how it is exercised separately from the outer core?

 

[Scrubber2050]

BPC
the real "inner core" for me is the ticker

Kniow Bruce will have the proper informed answer