Aussie Player Exodus

[Sully]

So we are talking about changing our eligibility rules to let a mediocre prop play for Australia?

In 2011 in a this thread http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...ted-ahead-of-salesi-maafu-based-on-form.8611/ named

Players we Should Have Selected Ahead of Salesi Ma'afu Based on Form

Keiren Longbottom
Matt Dunning
Le Fuse
Tim Fairbrother
Dan Palmer

Discuss.
I am concerned that he is in the team based on the season he has had.
Why?

Edit: and no animosity to the big fellow. He has tried his guts out, and fair play to him for taking his opportunities.
But I see this selection on par with selecting say Gene Fairbanks at the moment.

Could name every prop in Australian rugby atm.

Very odd.

so in three years he's gone from the worst prop in Australia to our saviour?

 

[kiap]

So we are talking about changing our eligibility rules to let a mediocre prop play for Australia?

You do realise, despite the gravitas which this forum ascribes to itself, that this place is a fantasy league, right?

From a few posts down on your cited thread:

Bollocks Groucho, I know far more than Robbie Deans!

This is the whole basis of GAGR. Experts of all flavours.

JON shouldn't have paid Robbie all that cash because Farva would have done it better for free.

 

[Dave Beat]

Player exodus - in my eye what we have ain't working.

A 2015 RWC shouldn't be what is keeping a player contracted to the ARU it should be playing for your country.

I don't profess to have a solution, and just provide ideas but to have all these players heading off shore doesn't build strength in what we have and it will only get weaker.

We are loosing Wallabies, State Players, & Good Club players off shore - even at colt level we are loosing players - an example
Lala Foketi an U20 this year gone.
Fabian Natoli an U20 this year gone.
and there are many more no doubt - these players are the grass roots of our game.

Imagine the quality of our rugby, and the depth we'd have if these players stayed in Aus.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think it's a reality of professionalism and globalisation. The only way to change things is to have more money to pay people.

Maybe the fact that we're losing more young players overseas is a sign that our development pathways are getting better.

 

[Quick Hands]

Surely I can't be the only one scratching his head over props and how they get rated?

A couple of blokes who are universally rated as pretty ordinary by everyone in Aussie rugby (except their Super Rugby team supporters) go North and within a couple of years are being hailed as the greatest thing since bottled beer, and gods gift to scrummaging. They could barely hold a scrum up here.

WTF?

Maybe they've improved after some decent scrum coaching?

Have you ever considered that scrum coaching in Australia is the problem and props in the NH are coached better in that aspect of the game?

If we accept for a moment that NH scrummaging is better than it is in Australia, then you'd have to think that coaching has something to do with it. Therefore an average to mediocre Australian prop, might actually turn into something much better with better coaching.

I make no particular comment about any individuals, although it does seem that one or two are now rated quite highly over there.

EDIT: You'd also like to think that a young professional player of any position would manage to improve between 2011 and 2015 wouldn't you?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Maybe they've improved after some decent scrum coaching?

Have you ever considered that scrum coaching in Australia is the problem and props in the NH are coached better in that aspect of the game?

If we accept for a moment that NH scrummaging is better than it is in Australia, then you'd have to think that coaching has something to do with it. Therefore an average to mediocre Australian prop, might actually turn into something much better with better coaching.

I make no particular comment about any individuals, although it does seem that one or two are now rated quite highly over there.

EDIT: You'd also like to think that a young professional player of any position would manage to improve between 2011 and 2015 wouldn't you?

And that's why I'm willing to accept that certain players might have improved, but I'd still need to see them prove their superiority in the Super comp before considering their potential as Wallabies.

 

[TOCC]

And that's why I'm willing to accept that certain players might have improved, but I'd still need to see them prove their superiority in the Super comp before considering their potential as Wallabies.

French, Irish and England players didn't prove their superiority in Super Rugby yet those teams defeated the Wallabies on the recent EOYT.

 

[Jagman]

I thought Maa'afu was mediocre based on how he played in 2010. BUT... I was very surprised how he scrummages against Wales in two tests in 2011. He was very solid. Then I was blown away how tore the B&I Lions apart for the Force. I always read that props are like wine. They get better with age. I believe this applies to him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Scrubber2050]

There was huge criticism of McFood back in the day. He has obviously improved with age and experience. Good on him.

A lot of our scrum woes don't come from the front row but the 5 guys behind them. We will always have problems until the pack acts as a single unit. Anyone who doesn't subscribe to that thought is just ignorant.

IMHO the first guy who lifts his head and not push until finality should be immediately replaced with no match payment. That would fix most (I said most) of our problems, perceived or real.

 

[qwerty51]

Is it totally inconceivable to people that players can improve? Kane Douglas just recently stated how there is an increased set piece focus in the NH yet for some reason you people continue to believe that players in the NH have the same set piece ability as when they were in Australia.. I also bet you don't watch any of his games.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

So we are talking about changing our eligibility rules to let a mediocre prop play for Australia?

In 2011 in a this thread http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...ted-ahead-of-salesi-maafu-based-on-form.8611/ named

so in three years he's gone from the worst prop in Australia to our saviour?

I reckon that we would do better trying to entice Dan Palmer back to Wallaby Gold.

 

[Highlander35]

Pyle already looks to be a stronger scrummager/Mauler/in tight for Stade. He's still strongest out wide and in the lineout, but those other areas don't appear to be as exploitable as they were for the Rebels. Hoping he's only gone the two years.

 

[Braveheart81]

IMHO the first guy who lifts his head and not push until finality should be immediately replaced with no match payment. That would fix most (I said most) of our problems, perceived or real.

It's not always that straight forward. One of the major disadvantages you have on a defensive 5m scrum is that the backrowers have to be ready to disengage very quickly.

There's no point having your flankers with their head down pushing their hardest if the opposition halfback or number 8 runs past them to score.

I agree in general though that we need more out of our backrow in the scrum.

 

[Marcelo]

And that's why I'm willing to accept that certain players might have improved, but I'd still need to see them prove their superiority in the Super comp before considering their potential as Wallabies.

The real test for an Aussie TH prop is against Europeans, the scrum at Super Rugby level is below than the scrum at international level.

 

[Quick Hands]

Just as all in hand play involves a certain mindset from the backline players (and the coach), so tight forward play involves a certain mindset from the players (and the coach). From an early age our tight forwards are encouraged to seagull around the park and are even picked in state and Australian level rep sides based as much on their abilities in open play as their scrum, maul and lineout work. Is it any wonder that they have a certain mindset, which translates into substandard set pieces at test level?

 

[Bullrush]

If there are no official rankings then NZ can't be No. 1 in the world.

Unofficially and anecdotally their scrum is also several rungs below the peak.

And as far as Ma'afu wearing No. 3 is concerned in this discussion, he doesn't have to be the No. 1 scrummager in the world either. - He only needs to be in the top three for the Wallabies.

And, to be frank, that wouldn't be especially difficult.

NZ is ranked the No.1 team in the world - officially. There are no official scrum rankings.

If Ma'afu is not good against the players who play in the Top 2 Tests nations, why would you pick him to play against the teams ranked 4th & 6th?

And as for being in the Top 3 Aussie no.3....he was pretty much that when he left wasn't he?

 

[qwerty51]

The NZ front row wouldn't rank in the top 5 IMO.

 

[Highlander35]

New Scrum rules have screwed up a lot of previously established rankings.

Argies and Italians remain very strong as do England. Pacific Nations about the same. Japan is better. But for the Celtics, France, plus the old tri-nations, how much has changed for better or worse, is pretty subjective.

 

[Marcelo]

The NZ front row wouldn't rank in the top 5 IMO.

Perhaps they aren't the best at front row but they can fight against any front row, they haven't a fucking Ben Alexander or a fucking Fat Cat who can ruin everything in 5 seconds

 

[Braveheart81]

When has Robinson been a liability in the scrum? All our problems in the last year have been at tight head, generally once Kepu goes off.