Aus vs NZ - 1st Test Sydney 17Aug2013

[Zander]

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Horwill
5. Douglas
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. Mowen
9. Genia
10. To'omua
11. Folau
12. Lealiifano
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. O'Connor
15. Mogg

16. Fainga'a
17. Sio
18. Slipper
19. Pyle
20. Gill
21. White
22. Cooper
23. Kuridrani

 

[something]

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Horwill
5. Douglas
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. Mowen
9. Genia
10. To'omua
11. Folau
12. Lealiifano
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. O'Connor
15. Mogg

16. Fainga'a
17. Sio
18. Slipper
19. Pyle
20. Gill
21. White
22. Cooper
23. Kuridrani

Maybe swap Kepu & Slipper as well as JOC (James O'Connor) and Folau and you've got a slick looking team

 

[Pfitzy]

Tight head prop is going to be an interesting selection. Will Link play his hand by cutting one of Kepu/Slipper/Alexander from the current squad? Certainly make things easier to pick at that point.

Kepu showed his value against the Lions, but incumbency will only get you so far with a new coach. Would like to see what is going on at training camp in regard to the new scrum sequence and check who is ticking the boxes.

 

[terry j]

might be a daft question, how do you cull people based on training? What do you look/listen for? See that he cannot pick up the moves?

I find it hard to fathom that you have a completely clean slate at the start of training and have enough data from that training to pick a team.

Those with more experience might be able to give hints here.

 

[Braveheart81]

might be a daft question, how do you cull people based on training? What do you look/listen for? See that he cannot pick up the moves?

I find it hard to fathom that you have a completely clean slate at the start of training and have enough data from that training to pick a team.

Those with more experience might be able to give hints here.

I don't think you have a completely clean slate. You're always going to start training camp with an idea of who you think are your best players and most likely to play in certain positions. That's the only way you can effectively run training where people have to play in specific positions.

The impetus is on those outside that top 30/top 23/top 15 to try and really stand out in training to push their way up the pecking order.

Whilst the new coach will give everyone in his squad a chance to show their wares during those first few days of training, they still have a strong idea of how they see things falling into place. It's not like an average couple of days at training is going to see Genia dropped from the 30 man squad. The quality of training performance between Phipps and White could very easily decide who is on the bench for the first test though.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Link already has his team picked. Training may determine a bench spot ot two

 

[terry j]

yeah I used 'clean slate' to show that there simply has to be pre-conceived ideas, (as in clean slate cannot really exist) which then comes back to my point, what does a coach look for, or what can he see in training that might tip the scales one way or the other?

I mean, they don't actually form two teams and play each other do they? Too much risk of injury etc to do that, but if you can't see how someone plays 'in a game' how do they change their position in the pecking order through being watched at training?

Is it by knowing them personally thru the training process you can know their attitude better? Stuff like that?

I'm not stirring the pot here, genuinely curious. I mean as an example, there seems little point in having forty people there if you are going to cull a large percentage of them, unless of course there are things that can stand out in training which heavily influences who will stay or go, so what are those things in training which influence?

 

[Cat_A]

In terms of absolute skill level there really isn't a huge amount of difference between the top 1-2% of rugby players (as much as we might argue till we're blue in the face that there is). So I think the large training squad serves a number of functions

• All of the moves and the whole game structure is changing and what the squad of 40 is learning is basically how we want to play. You need to make sure that if you get three or four injuries you can call people in who have been through the basic training
• See who "gets it" and who responds to the training and structure really well, and who complains or bitches and moans about the training, the changes or the food..whatever. Going on long tours with whingers would be a killer!
• find out if there's someone in there who is an absolute loose cannon with self-control issues who will be a liability on tour. If they can't control themselves while in camp hanging out with their mates, they won't control themselves in NZ or SA (not referring to any current players, but I know of an instance when it has determined a playing spot in the past)
• See people playing together in combinations you haven't seen before and how they work together. From what I've been told Phipps is a very popular player because he's always positive and energetic at training and during games, even when things are terrible. (If I knew that my chances of taking the field were usually slim to none I'm not sure I would be able to do the same). Even when he's sitting on the bench, he's involved before the game, at half-time and during breaks in play to give his teammates confidence and a lift.

They would be what I would be aiming to get out of the 40 squad if I were Ewen.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think skill execution is also likely to play a big part in close decisions.

It might only be training, but if a player drops the ball often or throws wild passes the coach won't be able to ignore it completely. It is frustrating and wastes everyone's time.

All the back three candidates will presumably do a fair bit of high ball work. You'd have to think the fullback position is pretty open between Folau and Mogg and the wing positions are wide open between Folau/Mogg, Tomane, Cummins and JOC (James O'Connor). An excellent training session under the high ball could really be the difference between who gets a starting spot and who misses out.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Has anyone got any decent goss from how the training camp is going?

 

[Braveheart81]

Has anyone got any decent goss from how the training camp is going?

The only thing I saw on twitter was that Mowen, White and Harris sat out yesterday afternoon's training session.

 

[Scotty]

Is there any merit in playing To'omua at 10 and Cooper at 15? I am not talking about swapping them, but rather they stay in those spots all the time.

Pros:

To'omua - best defensive 10 we have, good boot, straight hard runner and reasonable distributer.

Cooper - great wide pass to wingers to find space, can play as second playmaker out wide to set up 13 and wings, good beating defenders one on one

Cons:

To'omua - not as wide a passing game

Cooper - maybe still suspect under the high ball?


My pros seem to outweigh the cons?

 

[Tip]

1. Sio
2.Moore
3. Slipper
4. Pyle
5. Horwill
6. MMM
7. Gill
8. Mowen
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. JOC (James O'Connor)
12. Lilo
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Folau
15. To'omua
16. Saia Fainga’a 17. Robinson 18. Kepu 19. Fardy 20. Hooper 21. White 22. Kurindrani 23. Mogg

MMM & Fardy are interchangeable. I think MMM offers alot more abrasiveness and probably a few less penalties than Fardy. Cooper to defend at 15 as he normally does under E-Mac. To'omua smashing c***s as per usual defending at ten.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is there any merit in playing To'omua at 10 and Cooper at 15? I am not talking about swapping them, but rather they stay in those spots all the time.

Pros:

To'omua - best defensive 10 we have, good boot, straight hard runner and reasonable distributer.

Cooper - great wide pass to wingers to find space, can play as second playmaker out wide to set up 13 and wings, good beating defenders one on one

Cons:

To'omua - not as wide a passing game

Cooper - maybe still suspect under the high ball?


My pros seem to outweigh the cons?

Cooper's pros will always outweigh his cons because he's a good rugby player.

You need to compare him to the other fullback options if that is where you're considering him though. I think Folau or Mogg are both significantly ahead of him if we're purely looking at them as fullbacks.

 

[Muttonbird]

Cooper. Pros. Cons.

Careful now. The thread will end up being locked a week out from the game.

 

[Scotty]

Cooper's pros will always outweigh his cons because he's a good rugby player.

You need to compare him to the other fullback options if that is where you're considering him though. I think Folau or Mogg are both significantly ahead of him if we're purely looking at them as fullbacks.

Folau definitely, but he is also a long way ahead of the wing options and Cooper's abilities could really help to get the best out of Folau (get the ball in his hands more).

If Folau goes to fullback, then who plays wing? Tomane can't even get a start for the Brums!

Mogg I am less sure about. He certainly gives us a great boot but his running has been down and his linking ability is much lower than Cooper's. I am concerned his inclusion will limit our ability to leverage Folau's running game.

 

[Braveheart81]

Scotty - for the record my backline would be:

Genia
Cooper
Cummins
Leali'ifano
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
JOC (James O'Connor)
Folau

I'd also be happy to start To'omua but I think Cooper will get first shot and realistically, it is his jersey to lose ahead of the two potential debutants (To'omua and Foley).

 

[Gurz]

Fan of both QC (Quade Cooper) and To'omua - and think Link knows its horses for courses.... Id let the kiwis think it was QC (Quade Cooper) playing 10 to switch it up @ last minute and start To'omua.... keep them guessing.

Best way to beat the kiwis is using unpredictability - that's why French always seem to go good against them and WHY deans failure so miserably.

Also - anyone got a good answer WHY the kiwis don't play a State of Island type comp...? Be a great spectacle to see Nth v Sth putting it on the line full of pride and passion.... kiwis why not ??

 

[fatprop]

I know it is too early for Bernard Foley he sure does have a nice highlight reel from this year

 

[Ruggo]

In the olden days, the 9 used to put the ball in when the hooker released his bind on the LH and tapped.

It allowed for wonderful timing for the Hooker's one foot strike

Agree with you completely fatprop. One problem I have found though is with these new tighter jersey's it is somewhat harder to get your bind back after giving the signal. It was never a problem with the looser traditional jerseys.