Argentina v Australia, Mendoza 4/10/14

[Lorenzo]

Hell no to Cooper at 12. They need a 12 that can run up the guts and set up forward-moving ball. We don't need two fly halves, we need one good one and two centres that are hard as nails. The good news is that we have one already (TK).

All To'omua has brought this series is shitty kicking and strong defence. What he is adding as the "2nd playmaker" I have no idea

 

[Lorenzo]

same primary reason as Beale I guess..defence

and because we need to move away from that jinky jukey crap and toward people that are strong in contact, not weak

 

[Pfitzy]

yes he is Pfitzy and I'm a believer, but every other player gets pole-axed on here when they are out of form and I don't see why he should be an exception!

He's not in poor form. He's just not where we need him. Its hard to criticise someone who is "meh" but his issue is execution, not decision-making.

Much easier to slap pretty much all our other backs today for not running straight.

 

[cyclopath]

same primary reason as Beale I guess..defence

Only in part, I think Cooper is a better defender now than Beale.
Cooper is a 10, pure and simple. Having him at 12 would be using his ability poorly, specifically not enough of his strengths, and too much of his weaknesses.
If he's fit, and playing / training better than Foley, put him at 10, and sort 12 with another. Put Foley on the bench, or Quade on the bench if Foley starts. Fitting him in at 12 would be a mistake. In my opinion.

 

[KOB1987]

Hell no to Cooper at 12. They need a 12 that can run up the guts and set up forward-moving ball. We don't need two fly halves, we need one good one and two centres that are hard as nails. The good news is that we have one already (TK).

All To'omua has brought this series is shitty kicking and strong defence. What he is adding as the "2nd playmaker" I have no idea

I tend to agree, we've given this 2nd playmaker thing a go and it aint working so lets go back to the model that has proven so successful for us in the past..Kerevi a possible smokie for EOYT I reckon.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Some of you guys are like jilted teenagers over Owens. He had some calls that were questionable, mostly he was fine, and some of the ones you're upset over were spot-on.

I think his breakdown interpretation was very advantageous to the Argies because it became a dockyard brawl. Have you ever seen so many toe pokes of the ball disrupting rucks? A sure sign it was agree for all.
And you really can't defend a bloke of his experience who cards IF without using the technology at his disposal. And then he half arsed reverses the decision in that he rescinds the card (can you do that????) but does not give us the penalty for interference.
He also should have used the technology on the Phipps card. I'm not sure it was wrong but why not use it and get the call right?
The guy is so keen on himself that he doesn't need assistance from technology.
Having said all that, on reflection, I wouldn't say he cost us the game.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Hooper was attempting a legitimate charge down and was in the air well before the ball was kicked. What has he done wrong? He couldn't have been quicker to try and card Folau who was not even at fault and actually wasn't even trying to tackle in fact.

he made contact with the head - end of story, isn't it?

 

[Slim 293]

Wait, we're talking about To'omua? Who went off the ground when Australia was 14 - 0?

Ok...........

 

[Train Without a Station]

he made contact with the head - end of story, isn't it?

What are his options?

1. Dive at the legs and potentially cause injury?

2. Jump to charge the ball down?

3. Just not contest?

I think he took the safest option. He also turned to hit him with his rump rather than knees which he would have front on.

 

[KOB1987]

no one is disputing his defensive qualities Slim..nor anything in todays game..at least he didn't kick the pill away while he was on

 

[Lorenzo]

Wait, we're talking about To'omua? Who went off the ground when Australia was 14 - 0?

Ok.....

To'omua's departure was put forward as some kind of turning point. I merely pointed out that he has participated for the full 80 in plenty of results like this one.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Before we start putting players into perceived capability gaps, do we actually know what we want from the positions?

Call me old fashioned but I like to see a good set move where the ball is moved from the #9 to the far side wing, with the ball going through about 4 sets of hands along the way, with the princesses isolating a defender with simple drawing and passing.

When did we last see one of those from a Wob Set piece?
The bloody NZ Schoolboys managed to do this simple exercise about 5 times for 3 tries in the Schoolboy test yesterday, and 2 near misses.
We have full time professional players in our backline. What do they do all day long?

Two Dads touched the ball twice today. Tomane about three or four times.

Can we get rid of this bash em up in the centres mentality? Work out a game plan, practice it at training until they can do it in their sleep, then bloody well implement the plan.

 

[cyclopath]

Wait, we're talking about To'omua? Who went off the ground when Australia was 14 - 0?

Ok.....

That's a weak argument to prove anything, Slim293, and you know it. To'omua has been defending well, but not adding what we all expected him to add in attack. The combinations currently are not gelling so well, and he's part of it. Not all of it, of course. I don't think any player's position in the backline is beyond discussion at the moment, except Kuridrani and perhaps Folau.

 

[Lorenzo]

What are his options?

1. Dive at the legs and potentially cause injury?

2. Jump to charge the ball down?

3. Just not contest?

I think he took the safest option. He also turned to hit him with his rump rather than knees which he would have front on.

If he can't contest without what happened this morning, he has an obligation to refrain from contesting, yes.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Wait, we're talking about To'omua? Who went off the ground when Australia was 14 - 0?

Ok.....

Has he been a match winner? No.

But considering out defence has been great when he is on the park you cannot lay any blame at him for losses.

 

[Lorenzo]

To'omua needs full Super seasons of playing at 12 if he's going to keep playing there for Australia.

 

[Slim 293]

That's a weak argument to prove anything, Slim293, and you know it. To'omua has been defending well, but not adding what we all expected him to add in attack. The combinations currently are not gelling so well, and he's part of it. Not all of it, of course. I don't think any player's position in the backline is beyond discussion at the moment, except Kuridrani and perhaps Folau.

I wasn't suggesting anything...........

It's just the usual broken records bringing up his name to lump blame for this loss.......

 

[KOB1987]

To'omua needs full Super seasons of playing at 12 if he's going to keep playing there for Australia.

that is one proposition I entirely agree with, if he plays 10 for the Brumbies again that's where he should be pencilled in for the RWC, whether it be 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice..

 

[KOB1987]

I wasn't suggesting anything.....

It's just the usual broken records bringing up his name to lump blame for this loss...

i blamed him for last week's (his kicking at least), no gripes for this week though..he didn't do anything spectacular while he was on and this whole discussion started by me pointing out that when he was replaced it merely proved we don't have a viable alternative in the current squad..

 

[cyclopath]

I wasn't suggesting anything.....

It's just the usual broken records bringing up his name to lump blame for this loss...

Yeak, OK. I don't think anyone was laying the blame for the loss solely at his feet. In any event, he is not playing his best, so is up for debate.