Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Barnes has only been part of one win in the past 2 years when he came off the bench in Hong Kong.........
2012 Rugby Championship Game 2 New Zealand vs Australia - 25 August
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
- Start date
- Status
Barnes has only been part of one win in the past 2 years when he came off the bench in Hong Kong.........
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
(Australian selectors need to decide what game plan were playing, ignore form and just pick the players they think they can mould into a winning combination.)
Waratah, should people be making such sensible suggestions in here, as an AB supporter I worry that RD will hear and actually do something like that!!
Waratah, should people be making such sensible suggestions in here, as an AB supporter I worry that RD will hear and actually do something like that!!
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Slim, is this part of your pre-campaign for McCabe to slot back in at 12?
How Deans could try anything other than 10. Cooper 12. Barnes is beyond me. Not that it will matter even remotely if our pigs play anything like Saturday. That's where the changes need to be made, but beyond swapping some bench and starters, I don't realistically see what those changes really are. Douglas for Timani would have seemed obvious, but Timani wasn't even close to our worst forward. Slipper for Robbo should happen, as should Moore for TPN. With Poey out, I don't think Deans will go for Hooper-Gill. He might have gone Hooper-Poey but that's it.
To my mind, Higgers and Dennis, if they start (as seems likely, IMO) must play with immediate intent and aggression. If they don't set the tone with ball in hand, we're farked.
How Deans could try anything other than 10. Cooper 12. Barnes is beyond me. Not that it will matter even remotely if our pigs play anything like Saturday. That's where the changes need to be made, but beyond swapping some bench and starters, I don't realistically see what those changes really are. Douglas for Timani would have seemed obvious, but Timani wasn't even close to our worst forward. Slipper for Robbo should happen, as should Moore for TPN. With Poey out, I don't think Deans will go for Hooper-Gill. He might have gone Hooper-Poey but that's it.
To my mind, Higgers and Dennis, if they start (as seems likely, IMO) must play with immediate intent and aggression. If they don't set the tone with ball in hand, we're farked.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
I like McCabe on the wing, allows us to play dual playmakers/kickers and allows both McCabe and Ioane to come in and take pressure off with midfield runs.
drewprint
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I normally don't condone fighting, but at one stage of the weekends game that's exactly what I wanted to see. Well, maybe not a full blown fight, but for our blokes to draw a line in the sand and stand up for themselves. Not for the glamour of a fight (as there is none) but for the message that it sends - fuck you NZ, you're on our turf and we're not going to get pushed around any more. Sure, we possibly (probably) would've gotten rolled in the ensuing fracas, but it sends a clear message that there's two teams here to compete, not just the All Blacks and 15 gold clad training bags there to be dealt with with disdain. There's nothing that shits me off more than this team than our willingness to roll over into submission at the first sign of aggression.
Hairy Test Eagle
Ward Prentice (10)
Robinson lacks the speed and technique of Hooper and Gill. He gets penalized too often and had a shocker when we lost to Samoa last year.
W
What2040
Guest
Beau stands out because of his shock of white hair, a bit like George Smith when he had the dreadies - was harder to find once he had a haircut BUT he was brilliant Beau is good
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
Drewprint, I agree, we seriously lack mongrel. Higgers has got it, Sharpie has got it, Horwill and Vickerman had plenty of it. But right now we just look soft.
Watching the All Blacks, they have some mean buggers in their pack, who are all nice blokes off the field, but once the play they are animals (Mealamu, Franks, Whitelock, Romano, Messam, McCaw). Compare that to the likes of Robinson and Dennis, they look like creampuffs.
With Dennis, I thought he played pretty well, but he needs to get angry for once, never looks like he is really into the match. If he got fucking pissed off and decided he wanted to belt someone or run over through them he'd be my first choice 6.
Watching the All Blacks, they have some mean buggers in their pack, who are all nice blokes off the field, but once the play they are animals (Mealamu, Franks, Whitelock, Romano, Messam, McCaw). Compare that to the likes of Robinson and Dennis, they look like creampuffs.
With Dennis, I thought he played pretty well, but he needs to get angry for once, never looks like he is really into the match. If he got fucking pissed off and decided he wanted to belt someone or run over through them he'd be my first choice 6.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
It would be folly for anybody to think that the inclusion of Cooper at 10 will make one iota of difference to this team without commensurate changes to the tactics of the whole side and the basic structures. For Cooper to throw a long pass there firstly has to be somebody wide and moving to receive said pass. As with criticism of Genia's slowness at the ruck often he is left looking for somebody to pass it to since Barnes is hiding from the defense 25 metres from the gain line flat footed.
I refuse to criticize the players overly, except to opine regarding fitness and form, when it is obvious to most objective people that there are no structures and tactics for them to adhere and guide them in pressure situations.
One of the ABs tries was a beautifully worked first phase set piece move of the sort that the Wallabies used to regularly play, which the Wallabies coaches believes should never be scored in test rugby. The Wallabies under Deans are incapable of playing such moves because they are all flat footed and moving as individuals because they have no structures to play to. "Playing what is in front of you" is essentially a reactive mind set that that is what the Wallabies have, that is fine for counter attack but shit for actually creating something which with 60% of the ball in this game alone (and numerous other examples of the same issue in other tests not against the ABs) proved they cannot do. The counter attack model then fails as well when you select defensive players who have little comparative speed of evasive skills to capitalise on the opportunity.
Basically what I have been saying for the last three years, under Deans there is a fundamental disconnection between his selection of the squad and the tactics (which are at the most basic of levels - defend/territory or run). Picking Cooper this week in essentially the same conditions, tactics and selection methodology around him will do little but open him again to vociferous rancor of his detractors who will not see the fundamental flaws of the whole package as it were.
The same argument goes for Barnes who, whilst I believe has been in poor form all year for the Tahs and didn't show anything special for the Wallabies IMO in the Welsh series, has not been given any sort of platform in which to work. We should not forget either that even more than Cooper Barnes requires a firm structure in which to work as he is essentially a territory based player who can at carefully selected times run effectively. He is not a renowned distributor.
So what do I expect this weekend? I expect that Deans will continue in his pigheaded fashion to select the 22 with the exception of Hooper at 7 and perhaps throw Cooper to the wolves at 10. Do I expect the Wallabies to play well? No, but I hope they do and I hope to see some structured effective play and definitive game plan that has players in motion in attack using the whole field and not with 13 players in a 15 metre section of the field, I fear however more of the same regardless of selections. Do I expect to see the Wallabies win? No, I hope to see them play well and play like they are trying to score instead of trying to limit the damage, but I fear I will see a capitulation of monumental proportions.
The previous odds of the ABs at $1.13 appear very generous and a $10K investment would provide a far better return than the share market for less risk.
I refuse to criticize the players overly, except to opine regarding fitness and form, when it is obvious to most objective people that there are no structures and tactics for them to adhere and guide them in pressure situations.
One of the ABs tries was a beautifully worked first phase set piece move of the sort that the Wallabies used to regularly play, which the Wallabies coaches believes should never be scored in test rugby. The Wallabies under Deans are incapable of playing such moves because they are all flat footed and moving as individuals because they have no structures to play to. "Playing what is in front of you" is essentially a reactive mind set that that is what the Wallabies have, that is fine for counter attack but shit for actually creating something which with 60% of the ball in this game alone (and numerous other examples of the same issue in other tests not against the ABs) proved they cannot do. The counter attack model then fails as well when you select defensive players who have little comparative speed of evasive skills to capitalise on the opportunity.
Basically what I have been saying for the last three years, under Deans there is a fundamental disconnection between his selection of the squad and the tactics (which are at the most basic of levels - defend/territory or run). Picking Cooper this week in essentially the same conditions, tactics and selection methodology around him will do little but open him again to vociferous rancor of his detractors who will not see the fundamental flaws of the whole package as it were.
The same argument goes for Barnes who, whilst I believe has been in poor form all year for the Tahs and didn't show anything special for the Wallabies IMO in the Welsh series, has not been given any sort of platform in which to work. We should not forget either that even more than Cooper Barnes requires a firm structure in which to work as he is essentially a territory based player who can at carefully selected times run effectively. He is not a renowned distributor.
So what do I expect this weekend? I expect that Deans will continue in his pigheaded fashion to select the 22 with the exception of Hooper at 7 and perhaps throw Cooper to the wolves at 10. Do I expect the Wallabies to play well? No, but I hope they do and I hope to see some structured effective play and definitive game plan that has players in motion in attack using the whole field and not with 13 players in a 15 metre section of the field, I fear however more of the same regardless of selections. Do I expect to see the Wallabies win? No, I hope to see them play well and play like they are trying to score instead of trying to limit the damage, but I fear I will see a capitulation of monumental proportions.
The previous odds of the ABs at $1.13 appear very generous and a $10K investment would provide a far better return than the share market for less risk.
Scott Allen
Trevor Allan (34)
My video analysis of the Wallabies slow ruck tactics
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/why-are-the-wallabies-slowing-their-rucks-down/
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/why-are-the-wallabies-slowing-their-rucks-down/
Isn't Beau injured? Or had surgery? I seem to recall something along these lines.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Thanks again for the efforts on that Scott. Two standout factors for me were
1)the depth of the backline made in near impossible for the Wallabies to make the gain line and hence the ensuing ruck was a mammoth effort for the players maintaining possession.
2)the receiver and support players were all static.
As you say this has been a consistent theme for a long time in the Wallabies and is not something that the players could have come up with on the field.
As I posted above changes in selection without commensurate changes to these basic structures will not make any difference to the play.
vidiot
John Solomon (38)
And this makes the packs job impossible, when it comes to getting to the tackle contest from the right side and supporting the ball carrier. Esp those coming from the previous ruck and the dummy runners that fool no defender as the ball loops behind them.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Exactly, and why I say bagging players like Dennis and Higginbum for their failures to perform really doesn't take into account such factors.
The basis of the performance starts with the selection of unfit and out of form players, but is then exacerbated by the tactics.
- Status