Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

Tell me. In terms of Aus/NZ Rugby what have been the primary sources of information we've been working from. Right across the forum. Sources that are very public and accessible.

Well mate the only ones I have used are where I have heard a CEO or someone actually say something, or take quotes from same in papers from them up to a point, everything else is opinion, and rumour. If I read that someone has done a write up in papers saying sources have told him I take it with a grain of salt, what I read a poster on a forum says I take with a barrel of salt. As I said I have done a hell of a lot of rugby administration and have then heard moans and groans from people who generally don't have the information needed to make the comments they make, whether it is at club level or up to provincial level. I learnt the hard way, when I was first on in clubs I was convinced the people on the provincial union were making decisions thet were wrong and against our club, until I was actually in a position to get ALL the info and realised I was hearing what people wanted me to hear. Call me a cynic but that is what it taught me. Also I will repeat posters and a lot of people in general are quick to say why things won't work, and not how they can work!

 

[Dan54]

Does anyone else have any issues with the use of PI as a branding label and the treatment of a range of cultures (Melanesians/Polynesians/Micronesia) being treated as some homogenous blob. and what is going to be the criteria of this PI team that gets bandied around, if I'm born in AU/NZ/US etc.. but my folks are originally from one of the PI's I'm allowed in the team..any heritage at all.. 5%?.. or what if like myself if I was born in AU but spent time living on one of the islands, am I eligible?.. or is this just another form of reverse racism against other players and people who don't tick a box somewhere with some cultural appropriation to instil warm and fuzzys. and explain to me how this team is going to help the home Unions in those countries when most proposals seem to be private owners with their own agendas or have the team based in some other country. What infrastructure.. intellectual property is actually created that isn't just in the hands of some 3rd party and not even based in one of the island nations that could use a genuine leg up with their development.

Question I have asked many times, and I assume it will be PI based teams, either in Islands or PI eligible, though we called the Sunwolves, The Japan Sunwolves!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Does anyone else have any issues with the use of PI as a branding label and the treatment of a range of cultures (Melanesians/Polynesians/Micronesia) being treated as some homogenous blob. and what is going to be the criteria of this PI team that gets bandied around, if I'm born in AU/NZ/US etc.. but my folks are originally from one of the PI's I'm allowed in the team..any heritage at all.. 5%?.. or what if like myself if I was born in AU but spent time living on one of the islands, am I eligible?.. or is this just another form of reverse racism against other players and people who don't tick a box somewhere with some cultural appropriation to instil warm and fuzzys. and explain to me how this team is going to help the home Unions in those countries when most proposals seem to be private owners with their own agendas or have the team based in some other country. What infrastructure.. intellectual property is actually created that isn't just in the hands of some 3rd party and not even based in one of the island nations that could use a genuine leg up with their development.

Apply the current WR (World Rugby) eligibility laws. As far back as a grandparent or 3 years residency. The vast majority of PI players would find themselves eligible under those laws. Which ever groups gets it up and running would definitely need to help build local pathways on the respective nations.

As for PI being used as a universal term. I actually think there should be two teams from the region. For a couple of reasons not particularly based on ethnicity etc. but more infrastructure and population. One from Fiji that has the infrastructure and population to at least in teams of players sustain a team and a Pasifika team based in NZ composed of mainly Samoan/Tongan players taking games to Samoa and Tonga.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Well mate the only ones I have used are where I have heard a CEO or someone actually say something, or take quotes from same in papers from them up to a point, everything else is opinion, and rumour. If I read that someone has done a write up in papers saying sources have told him I take it with a grain of salt, what I read a poster on a forum says I take with a barrel of salt. As I said I have done a hell of a lot of rugby administration and have then heard moans and groans from people who generally don't have the information needed to make the comments they make, whether it is at club level or up to provincial level. I learnt the hard way, when I was first on in clubs I was convinced the people on the provincial union were making decisions thet were wrong and against our club, until I was actually in a position to get ALL the info and realised I was hearing what people wanted me to hear. Call me a cynic but that is what it taught me. Also I will repeat posters and a lot of people in general are quick to say why things won't work, and not how they can work!

Then you live in a world of very little actual facts or information. Because if a CEO is directly leaking facts about their operations publicly outside of organised sources likes articles written by reporters then they're failing at their jobs.

 

[Dan54]

Then you live in a world of very little actual facts or information. Because if a CEO is directly leaking facts about their operations publicly outside of organised sources likes articles written by reporters then they're failing at their jobs.

Ok well if and you openly stated you get a lot of your info off rugby forums. the CEO stuff I said 'if I heard him say it on tv' not leaked to papers, I made it clear that I took leaks from sources with little belief, and if a CEO or someone is quoted with a grain of salt. So we will leave it at that, you think Forums are the place to get info I don't, and I don't have a problem with that as I said I have learnt to be a cynic through experience.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Ok well if and you openly stated you get a lot of your info off rugby forums. the CEO stuff I said 'if I heard him say it on tv' not leaked to papers, I made it clear that I took leaks from sources with little belief, and if a CEO or someone is quoted with a grain of salt. So we will leave it at that, you think Forums are the place to get info I don't, and I don't have a problem with that as I said I have learnt to be a cynic through experience.

Yes, but it was pretty obvious that I wasn't referring to this topic in that regard.

 

[molman]

Question I have asked many times, and I assume it will be PI based teams, either in Islands or PI eligible, though we called the Sunwolves, The Japan Sunwolves!

I'm just not sure I buy some of the rhetoric about how we have to help the PI's and that the private franchises being presented are the solution. Call me a little cynical but it feels like business as usual with the region being leveraged yet again for other agendas.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm just not sure I buy some of the rhetoric about how we have to help the PI's and that the private franchises being presented are the solution. Call me a little cynical but it feels like business as usual with the region being leverage yet again for other agendas.

I certainly hope not.

 

[molman]

I certainly hope not.

Me too. Some genuine local investment and teams is what I would love to see raising the standards throughout PI's, with genuine pathways. It would also be nice for the players to be based actually in the PI's with the profits circulating around the local economy. To my mind Fiji is the logical starting point based on the population and economics as you mentioned.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-up-to-1m-to-stay-afloat-20200815-p55m0y.html

Well reality just turned up at the front door.

 

[KOB1987]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-up-to-1m-to-stay-afloat-20200815-p55m0y.html

Well reality just turned up at the front door.

That’s probably really just in line with what RA have already announced re concentrating on keeping the best 30 players and the development players. That $1m won’t be coming out of their pay.

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

I wonder how much they have saved already by losing Beale, Fitzpatrick, Simmons, Hanigan, and the others. This would stop any big new signings, but since when has an Australian rugby team made a big new signing? The Tahs have a good young squad which is presumably very cheap for now.

 

[molman]

That’s probably really just in line with what RA have already announced re concentrating on keeping the best 30 players and the development players. That $1m won’t be coming out of their pay.

Yes, though the comment/inference about the Rebels spending up to the $5.5mil cap was interesting.

I wonder how much they have saved already by losing Beale, Fitzpatrick, Simmons, Hanigan, and the others. This would stop any big new signings, but since when has an Australian rugby team made a big new signing? The Tahs have a good young squad which is presumably very cheap for now.

Those departing players make a lot of sense in the context of these more austere times.

 

[qwerty51]

Well the Tahs should use the freed up cash to go after Rodda, Hockings, Itoje, Coleman fuck any decent lock.

 

[Quick Hands]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-up-to-1m-to-stay-afloat-20200815-p55m0y.html

Well reality just turned up at the front door.

This has been the reality for weeks, but there's only a few of us want to admit it.

 

[KOB1987]

It’s impossible for the franchises to generate any revenue at the moment, except for a little bit of merchandise. I suspect once there is a competition structure in place they will rattle the tin via membership - maybe even ownership - packages. The members/supporters are the obvious place to go to raise that amount of money, it really isn’t much.

 

[Dan54]

2150"]Well the Tahs should use the freed up cash to go after Rodda, Hockings, Itoje, Coleman fuck any decent lock.[/quote]

I don't think there will be freed up cash, the pay cuts are so Tahs can stay afloat!

 

[Dan54]

Does anyone else have any issues with the use of PI as a branding label and the treatment of a range of cultures (Melanesians/Polynesians/Micronesia) being treated as some homogenous blob. and what is going to be the criteria of this PI team that gets bandied around, if I'm born in AU/NZ/US etc.. but my folks are originally from one of the PI's I'm allowed in the team..any heritage at all.. 5%?.. or what if like myself if I was born in AU but spent time living on one of the islands, am I eligible?...

One of the proposals I did hear was it was meant to be a PI based team, they would use non PI players to strengthen the teams until enough could be brought through. I agree molman on I sick of hearing we owe it to them to have a team, but I do like the idea of it happening if someone get's it up and running and it gives another development path for PI player. I don't imagine they will have a real hard and fast rule on eligibity,anymore than any other Super team has. All the Tahs players don't have to be form NSW, and Reds/Qld, Canes/Wellington. I am guessing it would be like any other team, be based around PIs or something and then still fill out squad with player as required. As I said Japanese Sunwolves were seen as Japanese team, but hardly filled with Japanese qualified players.

 

[molman]

It’s impossible for the franchises to generate any revenue at the moment, except for a little bit of merchandise. I suspect once there is a competition structure in place they will rattle the tin via membership - maybe even ownership - packages. The members/supporters are the obvious place to go to raise that amount of money, it really isn’t much.

Not an uncommon issue all over the world, a lot of the English Premiership teams were looking rather close to bankruptcy and likely are only are making it though on the earlier CVC injection and some owners putting their hands in their pockets. The salary cap has dropped significantly for next year. NZR with their war chest have the Blues trying to convert the Blues v. Crusaders ticket sales for the lost game into tickets for a future friendly so they can keep as much of that cash on the books. All the clubs are struggling in one way or the other and the amount of auxiliary people having lost their jobs in this industry hasn't been great. Hard trot for Penney though, he must be looking back at what Gibbson was afforded and be thinking if only.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

This has been the reality for weeks, but there's only a few of us want to admit it.

Sadly we are a) still waiting to hear on broadcast deal and b) possibility of private equity investment

We really need a) and b) but b) won’t come till get a) and if a) as expected much reduced and b) don’t happen there is going to be a stampede to japan, Europe and USA