Where to for Super Rugby?

[WorkingClassRugger]

Had no idea they had split relationship.

From what I have been told it has something to do with the Union being unhappy about how the Dragons went about promoting themselves on social media. Nothing lewd or anything. More that they thought they hadn't done a good enough job. And it apparently soured from there.

 

[Dan54]

Because they will recruit so many top player from Europe when they are operating on a far smaller budget.

They may get a few from Europe not top players I assume, but I guess they will look at Islands NZ and Aus for players, I guessing they know what budget is.

 

[Dan54]

Dan, there are posters here of quality, knowledge and understanding. WCR has many years of demonstrating solid information, especially where media sources were slow or non existent, on things like Rugby News from unexpected places.



An accurate summary I believe.

I know WCR same as RN are quality posters, but I thinking they letting their dislike of NZ rugby to colour their thought, look I admit to being a kiwi so looking at things in a different light and look at things from NZ point of view, but why is it as soon as a PI team has shown any interest in joining Super rugby they have to be rubbished. Does anyone really think because AP Dragon are a team?franchise/company that was formed in Singapore to be part of GRR that it will always only be there, and will use the same players they have got now? Really? I don't even know the roster for Dragons, are they PI as the team they talk about now is? Why are so many worried about a PI team?

 

[Dan54]

It's not hard. I get about on a number of forums and regularly interact with people from a large number of Rugby playing nations. Particularly from T2 and T3 nations. Several of them as it turns out have good links with the game in those countries and are more than willing to tell you if you ask.

But on the EOI's all that has required is reading. They've been mentioned across several sources all freely available. No digging required.

I have no problem if you have read them, (where can I read it?)I haven't actually read one, most EOIs I have ever answered to mean I want to know receive more info on tenders etc, and was silly enough to think that is what would be sent out, EOI of a comp, do you want to know more about it? I know RA has been reported to have said they ripped them up, so how come they are showing interest by talking with NZR? There seems to be a little bit of confusion.
I actually interact with a few people from different unions, not really online as someone saying something on a forum is not or never has been a reliable place to get info. Look I know you think I probably argue too much, but I have been involved in rugby in clubs here and NZ, Junior Advisory Boards (NZ) and Provincial Union, and have always found the hardest thing to deal with is people that write off what you are trying to achieve because they have got info or gossip (which is what a forum is) from someone who does not know what is involved or what final strategy is, probably one of the reasons why I no longer do it. I always found the easiest thing in the world to do is stand back and say why things won't work and not try and do something to make things work or look at the positive side!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I know WCR same as RN are quality posters, but I thinking they letting their dislike of NZ rugby to colour their thought, look I admit to being a kiwi so looking at things in a different light and look at things from NZ point of view, but why is it as soon as a PI team has shown any interest in joining Super rugby they have to be rubbished. Does anyone really think because AP Dragon are a team?franchise/company that was formed in Singapore to be part of GRR that it will always only be there, and will use the same players they have got now? Really? I don't even know the roster for Dragons, are they PI as the team they talk about now is? Why are so many worried about a PI team?

I don't hate NZ Rugby. I dislike the attitude they entered this stage with and their continue insolence in regards to swallowing their pride (many say arrogance) and working with RA to achieve their initial stated goals. I believe a 10-12 team AP/TT competition would be the best in the world. One that could attract significant PE that would allow it to sign the necessary pieces to ensure the competition is highly competitive right across the board. RA wants that. Most Australian Rugby fans want that or would gladly accept that. It's in NZR's hands at the moment but once again their insolent attitude is leading them down a poorer path.

We all know the AP Dragons weren't a GRR construct. That's not the point being made. Neither is it in regards to any of the proposed PI squads. It's about the point of quality. And in particular NZR's statement in regards to their requirement of quality in regards to the number of teams and the composition of the league. Truth be told most of the best PI talent in NZ are already signed to NZ Super Rugby squads (in regards to most NZ based PI being both NZ and PI eligible) meaning there are legitimate concerns as to the likely quality of a NZ sourced team. There are also questions in regards to being able to attract the best NH based PI talent without the ability to outbid NH clubs on their current contracts. So unless they are able to pull this off then there's serious questions about the quality of any of these bids.

 

[Dan54]

I don't hate NZ Rugby. I dislike the attitude they entered this stage with and their continue insolence in regards to swallowing their pride (many say arrogance) and working with RA to achieve their initial stated goals. I believe a 10-12 team AP/TT competition would be the best in the world. One that could attract significant PE that would allow it to sign the necessary pieces to ensure the competition is highly competitive right across the board. RA wants that. Most Australian Rugby fans want that or would gladly accept that. It's in NZR's hands at the moment but once again their insolent attitude is leading them down a poorer path.

.

So have RA and NZR stopped talking? I thought they were. I also believe a 10-12 team comp would be bloody great. But once again if you know they have stopped talking ,you know more than me, I thought RA had wanted an answer before sept 4th, how is this a case if they not talking?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I have no problem if you have read them, (where can I read it?)I haven't actually read one, most EOIs I have ever answered to mean I want to know receive more info on tenders etc, and was silly enough to think that is what would be sent out, EOI of a comp, do you want to know more about it? I know RA has been reported to have said they ripped them up, so how come they are showing interest by talking with NZR? There seems to be a little bit of confusion.
I actually interact with a few people from different unions, not really online as someone saying something on a forum is not or never has been a reliable place to get info. Look I know you think I probably argue too much, but I have been involved in rugby in clubs here and NZ, Junior Advisory Boards (NZ) and Provincial Union, and have always found the hardest thing to deal with is people that write off what you are trying to achieve because they have got info or gossip (which is what a forum is) from someone who does not know what is involved or what final strategy is, probably one of the reasons why I no longer do it. I always found the easiest thing in the world to do is stand back and say why things won't work and not try and do something to make things work or look at the positive side!

And yet. A surprising number of the guys who I interact with turn out to be just who they say they are and provide good information.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

So have RA and NZR stopped talking? I thought they were. I also believe a 10-12 team comp would be bloody great. But once again if you know they have stopped talking ,you know more than me, I thought RA had wanted an answer before sept 4th, how is this a case if they not talking?

Did I say they weren't talking? Show me the direct quote where I said negotiations had stalled. Go ahead. I'll give you a minute. I said they have a insolent attitude.

 

[Dan54]

I dislike the attitude they entered this stage with and their continue insolence in regards to swallowing their pride (many say arrogance) and working with RA to achieve their initial stated goals)

Well you say they not working with RA to achieve their stated goals, so what are they talking about then? Sorry when I read it you are right you didn't say it, but anyway tell me about the arrogance they continue to use. I haven't read anything that NZR have said since the beginning, only what Hamish and Rob Clarke have supposedly said.

 

[Dan54]

And yet. A surprising number of the guys who I interact with turn out to be just who they say they are and provide good information.

Mate I sure they are reliable, and I actually believe you are who you say you are, but I am afraid I don't take evrything you say as being the gospel, as you don't with me. The easiest thing to do is believe posters who give us info that agrees with our thoughts.
By the way, can you give me a rundown of what was in the EOI's that they gave you? I really am interested.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I dislike the attitude they entered this stage with and their continue insolence in regards to swallowing their pride (many say arrogance) and working with RA to achieve their initial stated goals)

Well you say they not working with RA to achieve their stated goals, so what are they talking about then? Sorry when I read it you are right you didn't say it, but anyway tell me about the arrogance they continue to use. I haven't read anything that NZR have said since the beginning, only what Hamish and Rob Clarke have supposedly said.

So the answer is I didn't say talks had stalled. You can show insolence and be in talks at the same time.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Mate I sure they are reliable, and I actually believe you are who you say you are, but I am afraid I don't take evrything you say as being the gospel, as you don't with me. The easiest thing to do is believe posters who give us info that agrees with our thoughts.
By the way, can you give me a rundown of what was in the EOI's that they gave you? I really am interested.

I've never claimed to be involved in the process and you know that. Drop the pissy attitude. I said they've been mentioned across several sources in the past weeks. Look them up for yourself.

 

[Dan54]

So the answer is I didn't say talks had stalled. You can show insolence and be in talks at the same time.

I know you didn't say that, but I meant what is the insolence they are showing?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Mate I sure they are reliable, and I actually believe you are who you say you are, but I am afraid I don't take evrything you say as being the gospel, as you don't with me. The easiest thing to do is believe posters who give us info that agrees with our thoughts.
By the way, can you give me a rundown of what was in the EOI's that they gave you? I really am interested.

I aslo don't pretend to be some Rugby Oracle that demands you take my word as law. I like to pass on information I get about the game that I find or receive to in this this case G&GR because I think you lot would find it interesting.

Particularly that of US Rugby and the MLR of which I have actively followed since day one. And have fostered relationships with those involved.

 

[Dan54]

I've never claimed to be involved in the process and you know that. Drop the pissy attitude. I said they've been mentioned across several sources in the past weeks. Look them up for yourself.

By all means, what sources? I genuinely don't know what your sources are that have the knowledge of what the EOIs said. I not doubting you I genuinely interested.

 

[Dan54]

I aslo don't pretend to be some Rugby Oracle that demands you take my word as law. I like to pass on information I get about the game that I find or receive to in this this case G&GR because I think you lot would find it interesting.

Particularly that of US Rugby and the MLR of which I have actively followed since day one. And have fostered relationships with those involved.

I must admit to enjoy your info on MLR as I admit to cheating and using your posts to get peeks into it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

By all means, what sources? I genuinely don't know what your sources are that have the knowledge of what the EOIs said. I not doubting you I genuinely interested.

If you want to discuss what I've actually said and not some bullshit angle you're trying to work then great. But you know you're talking shit now.

 

[Dan54]

If you want to discuss what I've actually said and not some bullshit angle you're trying to work then great. But you know you're talking shit now.

Ok mate, fair enough, you see why I mean you can't really take things you read on forums as being always spot on, you assured me you know what is in the EOIs because of several sources and when I asked for sources, or to tell me what was in them ,it now become a personal attack. you haven't answered any question on EOIs or NZR continued insolence , but just accused me of being pissy becuase I asked. If you read what I said when I said the reason I question these things because of experience in rugby administration and continued attacks on decisions by people who don'r really know is the only reason I like to know these things. I try not to get my info on rumours, anyway we will agree you know, and leave it at that. Nothing to get upset about.
Anyway I got rugby to watch, and a game to go into at Suncorp, so I will leave you to it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Ok mate, fair enough, you see why I mean you can't really take things you read on forums as being always spot on, you assured me you know what is in the EOIs because of several sources and when I asked for sources, or to tell me what was in them ,it now become a personal attack. you haven't answered any question on EOIs or NZR continued insolence , but just accused me of being pissy becuase I asked. If you read what I said when I said the reason I question these things because of experience in rugby administration and continued attacks on decisions by people who don'r really know is the only reason I like to know these things. I try not to get my info on rumours, anyway we will agree you know, and leave it at that. Nothing to get upset about.
Anyway I got rugby to watch, and a game to go into at Suncorp, so I will leave you to it.

Tell me. In terms of Aus/NZ Rugby what have been the primary sources of information we've been working from. Right across the forum. Sources that are very public and accessible.

 

[molman]

Does anyone else have any issues with the use of PI as a branding label and the treatment of a range of cultures (Melanesians/Polynesians/Micronesia) being treated as some homogenous blob... and what is going to be the criteria of this PI team that gets bandied around, if I'm born in AU/NZ/US etc.. but my folks are originally from one of the PI's I'm allowed in the team..any heritage at all.. 5%?.. or what if like myself if I was born in AU but spent time living on one of the islands, am I eligible?.. or is this just another form of reverse racism against other players and people who don't tick a box somewhere with some cultural appropriation to instil warm and fuzzys... and explain to me how this team is going to help the home Unions in those countries when most proposals seem to be private owners with their own agendas or have the team based in some other country. What infrastructure.. intellectual property is actually created that isn't just in the hands of some 3rd party and not even based in one of the island nations that could use a genuine leg up with their development.