Where to for Super Rugby?

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I understand the arguments that Knox is making but I note that as usual it's all criticism and no solutions, which is par for the course with opinion journalists. It's all very well to say that this or that won't work and shit's fucked (fair enough, call it as you see it), but what is conspicuously absent is any commentary on things like "sources say this might be an option". This has been the biggest issue I've had with all the talk about the state of the game in Australia. Everyone loves saying how crap everything is but there have been few sensible voices in and around the game saying: what about doing X, Y or Z. At least the new chair is putting forward some options.

 

[kiap]

Of course I agree with this, even a single team added next year is probably a step to far, but the most important thing is making sure the building blocks are in place to enable the RA to have options moving forward.

The general consensus is a TT would garner the best broadcast deal, yet there is no real evidence that rugby here will be better of long term signing up-to a structure that is specifically designed to suit NZ.

The problem is as we are seeing with the Waratahs, what choice do you have when theirs no money left in the debit card.

Yep, I'd like to see them perhaps add Fiji to get 6.

Play through 2021 while seeing if a TT can be reached. If not, then plans can be building for the domestic comp.

In terms of domestic, I mean domestically controlled but this wouldn't preclude a non-oz neighbouring team, e.g. Fiji, being involved if we don't have the depth to expand to the required extent.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yep, I'd like to see them perhaps add Fiji to get 6.

Play through 2021 while seeing if a TT can be reached. If not, then plans can be building for the domestic comp.

In terms of domestic, I mean domestically controlled but this wouldn't preclude a non-oz neighbouring team, e.g. Fiji, being involved if we don't have the depth to expand to the required extent.

Fiji makes the most sense seeing as they have been competing within our structures for 4 or so years now. And they'd be able to provide a pretty competitive squad from the get go much as they did in the NRC. The only issue doing that is if a TT competition is on the books for 2022 as if we were to include them next year I'd want them to join whatever structure we run from 2022 and beyond.

I should also put forth that a big part of the attraction of the inclusion of the Drua is that they are funded by WR (World Rugby). Which lessens the burden on RA in terms of covering their operational needs.

 

[hoggy]

Fiji makes the most sense seeing as they have been competing within our structures for 4 or so years now. And they'd be able to provide a pretty competitive squad from the get go much as they did in the NRC. The only issue doing that is if a TT competition is on the books for 2022 as if we were to include them next year I'd want them to join whatever structure we run from 2022 and beyond.

I should also put forth that a big part of the attraction of the inclusion of the Drua is that they are funded by WR (World Rugby). Which lessens the burden on RA in terms of covering their operational needs.

You would hope that WR (World Rugby) would provide some funding, but who knows what their finances are going to look like after all this.

But in regards to a TT, i'm all in favor of champions league/Heineken cup style comps with NZ and whoever, but I will argue that this should be done separately from our own domestic competition.

You run your domestic competitions and on the completion, then enter inter country competitions.

 

[Derpus]

Don't the all the European Champions League style competitions run concurrent to their regular season? im not sure that would work for us.

 

[eastman]

Knox has been pushing the barrow that union needs to merge with league in Australia for ages. He can't be taken seriously and has no concept of the global nature of rugby. At least he recognises that we have good players in union, and his logic is more due to the lack of any tribalism and niche following. He's right on both counts there but in no world will RA be handing the reins to the NRL.

Knox went to a private school and his original code of preference was Union. However he is a general sports commentator/ opinion journalist and his views have probably been warped by the lack of relevance rugby has compared to the other codes in the organisations that he has worked for. He probably has a better understanding of how rugby is perceived by the masses than most on this forum.

 

[hoggy]

Don't the all the European Champions League style competitions run concurrent to their regular season? im not sure that would work for us.

Yep, concurrently will be harder to schedule, but at the conclusion of each's domestic comps, if NZ/RA have say 12 teams and possible Japan/SA inclusion say 16 teams, that gives you 4 pools of 4, semi finals/finals. For each franchise a min of 13 games up-to 17 games each.

The other being is have the broadcasters said specifically that a TT competition is worth more to them than the above format, I know TT is being promoted, but where are the figures that back that up.

 

[kiap]

Knox went to a private school and his original code of preference was Union.

Funnily enough, he went to Knox.

However he is a general sports commentator/ opinion journalist and his views have probably been warped by the lack of relevance rugby has compared to the other codes in the organisations that he has worked for. He probably has a better understanding of how rugby is perceived by the masses than most on this forum.

In terms of click-baiting, for sure.

Trolling, though, there might be some contenders.

 

[Dan54]

Yep, concurrently will be harder to schedule, but at the conclusion of each's domestic comps, if NZ/RA have say 12 teams and possible Japan/SA inclusion say 16 teams, that gives you 4 pools of 4, semi finals/finals. For each franchise a min of 13 games up-to 17 games each.

The other being is have the broadcasters said specifically that a TT competition is worth more to them than the above format, I know TT is being promoted, but where are the figures that back that up.

You really think Broadcasters are going to give us figures hoggy? Wouldn't all that stuff be in confidence while they talking? I definitely think they must feel that way, let's face it if either NZR or RA were going to make more money going alone, we wouldn't be seeing the crap going on at moment.

 

[Adam84]

right now some of the Super Rugby matches, both kiwi and oz, get higher ratings in the UK then they do in Australia/New Zealand.

What RA and NZR will be acutely aware of, is that they aren't only looking to secure broadcast rights within their own country, but if they both go alone they will be directly competing with each other to sell their content to overseas broadcasters, and they could really cannibalise each others value.

At the end of the day, even if both countries decide to run their own tournaments, they would be better served combining those packages for the international market to ensure they get the top dollar.

Both NZR and RA will both be well aware that currently they are selling only 2 games a weekend each, whilst they pay the wages for 1 team to sit on their asses each week. It's a pretty inefficient situation currently. Whereas in combining those tournaments they could increase the content without increasing the overheads.

 

[KOB1987]

Knox went to a private school and his original code of preference was Union. However he is a general sports commentator/ opinion journalist and his views have probably been warped by the lack of relevance rugby has compared to the other codes in the organisations that he has worked for. He probably has a better understanding of how rugby is perceived by the masses than most on this forum.

Yeah that’s what I was getting at. His views on how rugby is perceived are largely right. His view that it should merge with rugby league, or any hope that it ever will, aren’t.

 

[hoggy]

right now some of the Super Rugby matches, both kiwi and oz, get higher ratings in the UK then they do in Australia/New Zealand.

What RA and NZR will be acutely aware of, is that they aren't only looking to secure broadcast rights within their own country, but if they both go alone they will be directly competing with each other to sell their content to overseas broadcasters, and they could really cannibalise each others value.

At the end of the day, even if both countries decide to run their own tournaments, they would be better served combining those packages for the international market to ensure they get the top dollar.

Both NZR and RA will both be well aware that currently they are selling only 2 games a weekend each, whilst they pay the wages for 1 team to sit on their asses each week. It's a pretty inefficient situation currently. Whereas in combining those tournaments they could increase the content without increasing the overheads.

Agree, but gee that's a fine line, combine for a TT with the NZ option all you are selling is 4 games a week that's no increase of what's currently being offered, even with 5 Aus teams its 5 games a total increase of one game, okay your costs are lower.

The point about combining packages makes sense, and I still maintain with separate domestic comps you've got an added competition to sell.

I think maybe part of the issue is insufficient teams in each country to give you more options, but for RA all a TT does is kick the can down the road (ahh 20 years of Super rugby), while NZ is sweet.

 

[Adam84]

Agree, but gee that's a fine line, combine for a TT with the NZ option all you are selling is 4 games a week that's no increase of what's currently being offered, even with 5 Aus teams its 5 games a total increase of one game, okay your costs are lower.


The point about combining packages makes sense, and I still maintain with separate domestic comps you've got an added competition to sell.



I think maybe part of the issue is insufficient teams in each country to give you more options, but for RA all a TT does is kick the can down the road (ahh 20 years of Super rugby), while NZ is sweet.

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A TT tournament allows for an overall 20% increase in quantity for the same player payments that currently exist. From a financial perspective its a no-brainer IMO.... However, this decisions isn't purely based on a financial outcome, there are other factors at play. ​

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From an Australian perspective, ive really enjoyed the current tournament and if there was way and means to make this financially viable, then I would prefer this be the longer term option .​

 

[mst]

Reading through all of the posts about the 8 team TT stupidity, I have one question.

Noting that RA, NZRU, and SARU are all struggling financially to keep their boats afloat, who is paying the bill for Fiji?

I doubt the FRU will be paying. Even the Kiwis charged them $250K to host a Maori All Blacks game so I can't see NZRU footing the bill.

 

[Dan54]

A TT tournament allows for an overall 20% increase in quantity for the same player payments that currently exist. From a financial perspective its a no-brainer IMO.. However, this decisions isn't purely based on a financial outcome, there are other factors at play.

From an Australian perspective, ive really enjoyed the current tournament and if there was way and means to make this financially viable, then I would prefer this be the longer term option .

Could well be the same feeling both sides of the Tasman Adam, but it won't happen, think a 5-6 team comp could get stale quickly.

 

[Dan54]

Reading through all of the posts about the 8 team TT stupidity, I have one question.

Noting that RA, NZRU, and SARU are all struggling financially to keep their boats afloat, who is paying the bill for Fiji?

I doubt the FRU will be paying. Even the Kiwis charged them $250K to host a Maori All Blacks game so I can't see NZRU footing the bill.

I doubt that anyone will have Fiji, that will only be if Aus had their own comp, no way they could play in a TT or anything of that nature, not enough money to survive, I know WR (World Rugby) may of paid for Fiji in NRC, but perhaps 5-6 of that team could play super or whatever. So they would need a shit load more money.

 

[hoggy]

Could well be the same feeling both sides of the Tasman Adam, but it won't happen, think a 5-6 team comp could get stale quickly.

6 team domestic competitions followed by champions leagues gives you about 18/19 weeks of rugby with 3 trophies up for grabs, depends what you call stale.

 

[kiap]

I doubt the FRU will be paying. Even the Kiwis charged them $250K to host a Maori All Blacks game so I can't see NZRU footing the bill.

A fair question. It won't be RA or NZR, but I don't rule out Fijian participation.

Billy B will foot some of the FRU bill and there are other potential sources. I'll leave it at that.

Without disrespect to the rest, Fiji are the best prospective entrant in the Pacific.

 

[mst]

6 team domestic competitions followed by champions leagues gives you about 18/19 weeks of rugby with 3 trophies up for grabs, depends what you call stale.

Do we really think that a Champions league (whatever you want to call it) that requires any TT or beyond that involves travel is realistic?

All RU's will make the simple business decision to get the cash cow out to pasture and maximize the $$$ every chance they get for the next few years. With what is expected to be limited window of opportunity that may be dynamic, it will be a case of rolling out national teams first up to bank what they can.

Other comps or suggestions will be a second thought at best unless some else is paying the bill or TV land is paying for the show.

 

[Rebels3]

A fair question. It won't be RA or NZR, but I don't rule out Fijian participation.

Billy B will foot some of the FRU bill and there are other potential sources. I'll leave it at that.

Without disrespect to the rest, Fiji are the best prospective entrant in the Pacific.

Any PI team inclusion will 100% require investment from the local governments (Fiji, Tonga, Samoa), investment from World Rugby (like Drua), investment from either the Aus or NZ government (both country’s are looking to invest influence in the region to battle overseas influence, I don’t particularly want to mention the country they are worries about. This would come from the financial investments already handed to the region each year) and co-operation with the largest companies in the region (mining, gas, Fiji airways etc.).