Where to for Super Rugby?

[Adam84]

I really do worry for oz involvment in this super rugby competition as states NZRU and Robinson the ones engaging the two pacific island teams. I don't want NZRU purely at the helm designing this super rugby competition as this won't end well for australian rugby interests imo. We desparately need an independent body set up to oversee the design and running of this competition.

Yep, NZRU played their cards last year and showed why they wanted from a tournament, and what role Australia would play. 8-10 teams including Fiji and Moana Pasifika if I remember correctly?

I’m not comfortable with NZRU controlling the tournament, if Australia’s participating then it should be equal representation or independently chaired.

 

[Adam84]

Not sure what their thinking is with another Brisbane team. Broncos are absolutely terrible. Gold Coast are perennially shit. Hell, even the Cowboys are a bit turd at the moment.

$$$$

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Should add if per the report they went ahead and appointed independant body to run the TT I would definitely be more on-board with the concept

Considering a few PE firms are in talks with both RA and NZR I suspect that part of any deal(s) would be an independent body that not only focuses on administration but developing the commercial side of the competition.

 

[hoggy]

$$$$

A game in Brisbane every weekend, your biggest market, you secure your home base, you dominate the media. It is a smart move.
As for rugby with NSW, well lets hope the Wallabies win.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yep, NZRU played their cards last year and showed why they wanted from a tournament, and what role Australia would play. 8-10 teams including Fiji and Moana Pasifika if I remember correctly?

I’m not comfortable with NZRU controlling the tournament, if Australia’s participating then it should be equal representation or independently chaired.

And read latest world rugby funding for 2 pacific Islands for super rugby entry that is subject to nz rugby approval - wtf - really not happy with nzru calling the shots for the design and management of super rugby competition at all

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Considering a few PE firms are in talks with both RA and NZR I suspect that part of any deal(s) would be an independent body that not only focuses on administration but developing the commercial side of the competition.

That is what one hopes

 

[dru]

I really do worry for oz involvment in this super rugby competition as states NZRU and Robinson the ones engaging the two pacific island teams. I don't want NZRU purely at the helm designing this super rugby competition as this won't end well for australian rugby interests imo. We desparately need an independent body set up to oversee the design and running of this competition.

It was an error from the very start that is highly dismissive of Australia. Tread carefully RA.

 

[Derpus]

A game in Brisbane every weekend, your biggest market, you secure your home base, you dominate the media. It is a smart move.
As for rugby with NSW, well lets hope the Wallabies win.

Does that work if they get flogged every weekend?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Does that work if they get flogged every weekend?

It is a great long term move actually as this is about regional land grab and cementing presence. Rugby actually needs to try and follow similar path for growth ie western Sydney team and second qld team but obviously needs platform for that growth which is better pro competition and private equity investment.

sport in australia fan support wise is very much about regional factions to create closer fan identity alignment - afl and nrl understand these trends and execute well

Rugby needs to find a way to follow the same model and starting point to doing this has been concepts of national club championship and getting club rugby as part of broadcast deal. Rugby has to try and eventually try and emulate this in pro rugby competition or face what tahs are facing from a lack of identity alignment with fans...

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It is a great long term move actually as this is about regional land grab and cementing presence. Rugby actually needs to try and follow similar path for growth ie western Sydney team and second qld team but obviously needs platform for that growth which is better pro competition and private equity investment.

sport in australia fan support wise is very much about regional factions to create close identify alignment - afl and nrl understand these trends and execute well

Rugby needs to find a way to follow the same model and starting point to doing this has been concepts of national club championship and getting club rugby as part of broadcast deal. Rugby has to try and eventually try and emulate this in pro rugby competition or face what tahs are facing from a lack of identity alignment with fans.

And to give RA lot of credit they recognise the need to move to this more regional fan model with their push of club rugby recognising to do this in pro rugby is challenging given investment required. It also no doubt was their thinking about plan b model of going it alone (and 8 teams) if nz did not play ball.

 

[Dan54]

I was not aware NZRU in the report last year had proposed independant body to run the competition as not seen any movement on that or is that something NZRU just conveniently ignoring as recommendation as for reasons above stated does not suit them.

Well I did say that perhaps most didn't read all that was proposed as it was too much fun to assume other things. The first time I had heard of the comp was when Robiscon was talking about it on Breakdown, and he said then that the idea was to work with RA, get a comp , and then find an independant body to run it. That were the words he used.

 

[Dan54]

I really do worry for oz involvment in this super rugby competition as states NZRU and Robinson the ones engaging the two pacific island teams. I don't want NZRU purely at the helm designing this super rugby competition as this won't end well for australian rugby interests imo. We desparately need an independent body set up to oversee the design and running of this competition.

I think this is happening, (if you read the press release) is becaue it is NZR who have agreed to split THEIR share of tv revenue. And both Fiji and Poana Pacifika wanted to work throuh NZR to get in. I have no idea why, but seems they both approahed NZR and not RA. Why is open to speculation, but I have my thoughts (well frmed by someone who has a bit to do with with one of them in a small way).

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Oh boy, the putative inclusion of these Pacific Island teams through NZRFU is going to send this board to 2000 pages. Rocket emoji. Diamond and hands emojis.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'd be very surprised if RA aren't involved in the process in some way, shape or form. It's just that we're seeing reports emerge form NZ as opposed to RA. Which has been a bit of a trademark under McLennan's stewardship. Were once the org. would leak like a sieve. He seems to have tightened things up substantially only drip feeding information where and when necessary or useful.

And coming from a PE background this doesn't surprise me.

Additionally, it makes sense that Moana are talking directly to NZR as they're going to be based in NZ. The FRU is a little disappointing as without RA they've wouldn't have a property like the Drua to put forth but considering the background of their CEO it's not that surprising they're talking to the NZ media.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Well I did say that perhaps most didn't read all that was proposed as it was too much fun to assume other things. The first time I had heard of the comp was when Robiscon was talking about it on Breakdown, and he said then that the idea was to work with RA, get a comp , and then find an independant body to run it. That were the words he used.

It should be an independent body from the outset. Set it up in much the same way as MLR in the US. A central office administers the competition and oversees salary cap operations with each franchise/Union each having a single vote as part of the ownership group. This would extend to any PE partners.

 

[Dan54]

It should be an independent body from the outset. Set it up in much the same way as MLR in the US. A central office administers the competition and oversees salary cap operations with each franchise/Union each having a single vote as part of the ownership group. This would extend to any PE partners.

MLR wasn't there from the start, USA rugby did the ground work and then MLR took it over and run it. Do you think there was board formed looking for a sport to run? Though it would be great to imagine that happening, there has to be a base of a comp for them to start with, MLT was formed with Rugby America.

 

[Dan54]

I'd be very surprised if RA aren't involved in the process in some way, shape or form. It's just that we're seeing reports emerge form NZ as opposed to RA. Which has been a bit of a trademark under McLennan's stewardship. Were once the org. would leak like a sieve. He seems to have tightened things up substantially only drip feeding information where and when necessary or useful.

And coming from a PE background this doesn't surprise me.

Additionally, it makes sense that Moana are talking directly to NZR as they're going to be based in NZ. The FRU is a little disappointing as without RA they've wouldn't have a property like the Drua to put forth but considering the background of their CEO it's not that surprising they're talking to the NZ media.

Of course RA will be involved in some way, even if only small. And if you read what's happening, like all things involving PI teams in NZ, almost everything comes from them, not NZR, who still are keeping quiet. And once again maybe NZR doesn't really feel they need the pubicity.
Look it how it is, I sure everyone doing what they think is the correct way.

 

[Dan54]

The only reason there is growth though was because a third entity controlled the Western Force, that growth is in spite of the RA, that growth is in spite of the structure.
A TT will just ensure there is no more growth.

Wrong the only reason there was growth was RA needed at least one more team for a comp, 5 teams is bad enough but 4?
Let's be honest about what happened, did we hear of Western Force coming back until Super went into hiatus. That is no way saying RA did not do well as they did, but I had read or heard nothing about Western Force being talked to begore Covid, in fact there was discussion whether RA needed to drop anoth team. And that was in Aus!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

MLR wasn't there from the start, USA rugby did the ground work and then MLR took it over and run it. Do you think there was board formed looking for a sport to run? Though it would be great to imagine that happening, there has to be a base of a comp for them to start with, MLT was formed with Rugby America.

Mate, take it from me. You're way off on how MLR got started. Way off. All USARugby has done is sanction the competition. Which they had to delay because they fluffed it up so monumentally with Pro Rugby (another wholly private endeavour) that they had to fend off legal challenges no matter how specious (the bloke they sanctioned was a grifter) the challenges were. This is the same org. that failed so miserably at it's one commercial endeavour it had to go through bankruptcy and extensive restructuring just to survive.

MLR started off as a solely owned endeavour of 6 backers. And was in the works even before the one and only ProRugby season had reached the finals stage. There was an independent board in place from day one. USARugby has no direct say or involvement in its operations. At all.

 

[Dan54]

Yep I get that, but I was under the impression that it was using teams or structures that were already in place. Without doing it with Rugby America it is not rugby, because it has to be played under their umbrella , or they are not playing rugby, with refs etc. If you had 6 or 20 backers in Aus or NZ, they cannot just say we starting a comp! I don't care what anyone imagines etc, all rugby has to be played under the umbrella of WR (World Rugby) and so through the countrie's union! American Rugby did the groundwork in that they set up original comp that MLR jumped in and took over basically. But anyway that still doesn't change the fact that someone had to try and set up a comp for other's to take over down here.