Where to for Super Rugby?

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yep I get that, but I was under the impression that it was using teams or structures that were already in place. Without doing it with Rugby America it is not rugby, because it has to be played under their umbrella , or they are not playing rugby, with refs etc. If you had 6 or 20 backers in Aus or NZ, they cannot just say we starting a comp! I don't care what anyone imagines etc, all rugby has to be played under the umbrella of WR (World Rugby) and so through the countrie's union! American Rugby did the groundwork in that they set up original comp that MLR jumped in and took over basically. But anyway that still doesn't change the fact that someone had to try and set up a comp for other's to take over down here.

Nope. USA Rugby (it's not Rugby America) has never set up a professional Rugby competition. They didn't even set up the Rugby Super League back in the late 90s - early 2000s. That was a collection of clubs. They actually cannot set up any direct commercial enterprise in the US as part of the classification as a Sporting Governing Body under US Law. Before you ask. No the NFL, NBA etc. are not the governing bodies of American Football or US Basketball. So, no. MLR isn't built off some imagined previous structure established by USA Rugby.

Like I mentioned before. The genesis of MLR began not long after Pro Rugby launched. PRO Rugby was an entirely separate entity from USA Rugby. As in USA Rugby much in the same vain as MLR has nor never had any direct input or control in regards to decision making or direction of either venture. PRO received sanctioning from USA Rugby as it makes it easier to access mainly referees but that is literally all USA Rugby provided. And they proved incompetent at probably vetting the sole owner of that competition.

MLR actually started off in the form of a trial run known as the Major Rugby Championship. Which was more or less there proof of concept. They actually started their first season thanks to the aforementioned legal issues between USA Rugby and PRO Rugby's owner without USA Rugby sanctioning. They actually just employed referees on their own behalf. Once USA Rugby had resolved their legal issues. And by resolve I mean the sanctioning agreement for PRO Rugby actually expired they then sanctioned MLR. But that's it. No infrastructure. No financial assistance. Nothing. Just a piece of paper done less for the sake of MLR more to keep MLR on good terms with the Union. If USA Rugby were in charge of setting up professional Rugby in the US then we'd be waiting another 50 years.

In the last few years the organisation has had to declare bankruptcy after their disastrous investment in Rugby International Marketing which was a separate company they set up but heavily invested their very limited budget in. Which collapsed. Then signing an equally disastrous deal with Flo Sports. Which locked away Eagles Tests for 10 years behind another overpriced and underdelivering platform. USA Rugby now exists as a decentralised organisation with little administrative control over a number of the segments of the game in the States.

IF MLR wanted to they could have continued to operate without sanctioning. They have far more resources than USA Rugby ever had. More leadership. More expertise. More ambition. Look at refereeing for example. Not only do they pay their officials. But they've actually hired Chris Pollock and Jonathan Kaplan to oversee and actively work with established and developing refs to improve the overall standards of officiating and play. If in 2018 USA Rugby tried to block MLR then as I type this today I know who would have won out.

 

[Jimmyjam]

I'd be rapt if we could end up with 2 eight team conferences in Aust and NZ.

Aust existing 5 plus a 2nd Qld team, Western Sydney and one more from either Fiji/Japan/Singapore/HK.

An international Marquee player for each team... plenty of o/s interest

NZ existing 5 plus 3 more from Pasifika or wherever, they have plenty of players.

You could then run a post domestic champions league format with top 4 from each conference and a bottom 4 conference playing for a trophy.

P/E money brings a lot of players home, 4 local games both sides of the ditch each weekend games scheduled so there are 2 Friday night games, 5 Saturday games and one Sunday match with local interest every weekend.
It'd be unreal! Imagine the Tahs vs Westies derby games.... Huge!!!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'd be rapt if we could end up with 2 eight team conferences in Aust and NZ.

Aust existing 5 plus a 2nd Qld team, Western Sydney and one more from either Fiji/Japan/Singapore/HK.

An international Marquee player for each team. plenty of o/s interest

NZ existing 5 plus 3 more from Pasifika or wherever, they have plenty of players.

You could then run a post domestic champions league format with top 4 from each conference and a bottom 4 conference playing for a trophy.

P/E money brings a lot of players home, 4 local games both sides of the ditch each weekend games scheduled so there are 2 Friday night games, 5 Saturday games and one Sunday match with local interest every weekend.
It'd be unreal! Imagine the Tahs vs Westies derby games.. Huge!!!

That would have to be one hell of a PE deal to make that happen.

 

[Jimmyjam]

Could probably do it If he felt like it..... $24 Billion AUD.....

 

[Derpus]

I don't think premising your new competition on giant handouts from Twiggy is sound.

 

[Jimmyjam]

I don't think premising your new competition on giant handouts from Twiggy is sound.

Purely based on Santa Claus logic.... but you never know!

 

[Jimmyjam]

I don't think premising your new competition on giant handouts from Twiggy is sound.

However there is also the possibility to consider that if built properly from day 1, it might actually make some money and turn a profit after a couple of years, so investment rather than handout thinking.. Also additional TV revenue from Stan due to more content, bigger crowds, big future cash injections from Lions tour, then hopefully RWC 2027 with Rugby hitting heights undreamed of!!!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I'd be rapt if we could end up with 2 eight team conferences in Aust and NZ.

Aust existing 5 plus a 2nd Qld team, Western Sydney and one more from either Fiji/Japan/Singapore/HK.

An international Marquee player for each team. plenty of o/s interest

NZ existing 5 plus 3 more from Pasifika or wherever, they have plenty of players.

You could then run a post domestic champions league format with top 4 from each conference and a bottom 4 conference playing for a trophy.

P/E money brings a lot of players home, 4 local games both sides of the ditch each weekend games scheduled so there are 2 Friday night games, 5 Saturday games and one Sunday match with local interest every weekend.
It'd be unreal! Imagine the Tahs vs Westies derby games.. Huge!!!

Could probably do it If he felt like it... $24 Billion AUD...

View attachment 12154

Well reported in media in feb and March RA talking to private equity and engaged (forgotten name) for that purpose so maybe closer to reality then we might imagine

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...y/news-story/0ff2b42cc2636120a0e59a829c9d34d6

 

[Dan54]

Nope. USA Rugby (it's not Rugby America) has never set up a professional Rugby competition. They didn't even set up the Rugby Super League back in the late 90s - early 2000s. That was a collection of clubs.

IF MLR wanted to they could have continued to operate without sanctioning. They have far more resources than USA Rugby ever had. More leadership. More expertise. More ambition. Look at refereeing for example. Not only do they pay their officials. But they've actually hired Chris Pollock and Jonathan Kaplan to oversee and actively work with established and developing refs to improve the overall standards of officiating and play. If in 2018 USA Rugby tried to block MLR then as I type this today I know who would have won out.

Apologies USA rugby, same applies if they set up a comp in USA without USA rugby sanctioning it they would not be playing rugby union. Not knocking MLR they did good, but they have set up a game using USA rugby. The collection of clubs originally were surely USA rugby clubs?

But regardless , would be bloody hard to set up similar here, wuth 2 different countries and all best players actually contracted to NZR and RA.

 

[Dan54]

Well reported in media in feb and March RA talking to private equity and engaged (forgotten name) for that purpose so maybe closer to reality then we might imagine

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...y/news-story/0ff2b42cc2636120a0e59a829c9d34d6

Think it CVC isn't it the outfit that has got a lot of NH rugby.

 

[Dan54]

Purely based on Santa Claus logic.. but you never know!

I know!! It ain't gonna happen, but as you say a great fantsay.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Apologies USA rugby, same applies if they set up a comp in USA without USA rugby sanctioning it they would not be playing rugby union. Not knocking MLR they did good, but they have set up a game using USA rugby. The collection of clubs originally were surely USA rugby clubs?

But regardless , would be bloody hard to set up similar here, wuth 2 different countries and all best players actually contracted to NZR and RA.

Pretty sure they would be playing Rugby Union with or without the sanctioning. What else would they be playing?

Point is, they did it without building off anything USA Rugby did. Sanctioning is and was purely ceremonial. As for the clubs. Same thing. Yes, they were and still are registered clubs but USA Rugby had no input into their competitive set up outside of holding divisional title tournaments. Hell, up until recently USA Rugby didn't even operate the one really successful property in the game. The Las Vegas 7s.

 

[Dan54]

However there is also the possibility to consider that if built properly from day 1, it might actually make some money and turn a profit after a couple of years, so investment rather than handout thinking.. Also additional TV revenue from Stan due to more content, bigger crowds, big future cash injections from Lions tour, then hopefully RWC 2027 with Rugby hitting heights undreamed of!!!

I love optimism mate! I see nothing wrong with your dream

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Think it CVC isn't it the outfit that has got a lot of NH rugby.

Over this side of the Tasman CVC, KKR and Silverlake as well as Forrest have all been mentioned over the last year.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Wonder if RA people read this thread...

 

[Brumby Runner]

Wrong the only reason there was growth was RA needed at least one more team for a comp, 5 teams is bad enough but 4?
Let's be honest about what happened, did we hear of Western Force coming back until Super went into hiatus. That is no way saying RA did not do well as they did, but I had read or heard nothing about Western Force being talked to begore Covid, in fact there was discussion whether RA needed to drop anoth team. And that was in Aus!

Maybe RA was just following the lead of the high and mighty NZRU and letting others, in this case WARU (Force), come to them with a proposal, similar to NZRU just sitting back on their arses waiting for Fiji and Samoa/Tonga to make their approaches to join Super Rugby? Give us a break Dan.

 

[Dan54]

Pretty sure they would be playing Rugby Union with or without the sanctioning. What else would they be playing?

.

League? Or something, only a rugby union can actually run rugby union. I know it sounds wrong, but there is a reason that noone can just go around starting up sports etc. They would have to change name and have to contract all players outside of USA, so no test players etc. Do you remember Super League? Players could play either rugby league or super league and until they made up they couldn't play each other.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

League? Or something, only a rugby union can actually run rugby union. I know it sounds wrong, but there is a reason that noone can just go around starting up sports etc. They would have to change name and have to contract all players outside of USA, so no test players etc. Do you remember Super League? Players could play either rugby league or super league and until they made up they couldn't play each other.

And yet the RFU doesn't operate the English Premiership nor do the FFR operate the Top 14. But both sure do look like Rugby Union competitions to me. I've made it very clear that USA Rugby was is no position to dictate anything to those behind MLR. They couldn't prevent players from signing. The loser in all of that if such a conflict arose would be USA Rugby. As MLR holds the vast bulk of the talent pool for the Eagles.

And I'll actually let you know how I'm so certain that they would be playing Rugby Union sanctioning or no. Because I've been told that they had no interest in any other sport or variation. A long while ago. Before most anyone else had any idea this was even a concept. By people directly connected to the group behind it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I don't think premising your new competition on giant handouts from Twiggy is sound.

I can see the attraction of substantial annual handouts to someone in Forrest's position. There's a reason billionaires tend to give so generously to philanthropic endeavours and the like. And that's tax. There's more than just profit at play. But, having the one investor funding the structure would open RA up to an unenviable in terms of being pressured to serve a singular interest as opposed to the game as a whole.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Think it CVC isn't it the outfit that has got a lot of NH rugby.

I'd say they are probably right in it. And considering that there's reports that the Six Nations and Autumn Nations Cup will be formatted in a very similar manner as the 9/Stan deal I think they'll be putting forth and interesting proposition for RA/NZR. Apparently the BBC and ITV will simulcast a number of 6Ns games on FTA alongside Amazon with the streaming service picking up the rest. So it's likely the respective national teams game will be live in set countries with those games not involving them being held for Amazon. A similar arrangement will be in place for the Autumn Nations Cup. Which is a fairly thinly veiled Nations Championship by another name concept. I think we could see CVC present a similar plan. With 9 hosting Wallabies FTA games, Stan showing the rest within Australia and Amazon picking up the international right for the RC and I suspect an expanded and rebranded Nations Cup featuring an eerily similar structure to that of the original WR (World Rugby) proposal.