Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rugbynutter39]

Sure: the idea that the Tahs let Folau (for his many limitations as a rugby player) sign with Uni is an absolute disgrace - sure he never plays for them but he might have pulled a lot interest if he'd signed for the 2 blues or Penrith.

Yep

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[half]

As Half said, plenty of people have been predicting this outcome for many years and trying to alert "fans" and officials alike to the dangers but were derided as pessimists and naysayers. Even when proved right the great and knowledgeable of the game can't admit they f*&^%& up and reply with derision again.

Gnostic

If it was only pessimists and naysayers I would not have often been so angry, as they exist everywhere.

I found total dismissal, often delusional beliefs of our strength and laughed at weakness of others.

Very often I found people who believed a certain paradigm seemed to me went searching for exemplars to prove there point. Confirmation bias at its best.

 

[Upthenuts]

Well I don't think SANZAAR or the ARU could actually have any hope of cutting teams if the players collectively rose up against it.

And what won't make me happy is if 20% of the professional rugby opportunities in this country are lost, and thousands of fans abandoned.

I believe it's completely against Australian rugby's interests to lose a team and would support any measure to ensure there are at least 5 professional teams in this country. I'm of the view that it may be better for us to go off on our own if NZ are unwilling to create a genuine Trans-Tasman competition. Even if that means losing a bulk of our top players.

id rather watch a ten team trans tasman comp, that this comp

 

[Upthenuts]

^^^^^^^^^^ I think this thread just jumped the shark. Hawaii? Really?

as dumb as putting japan in a safa conferance

 

[Ulrich]

Given the player strike in Paris seems to have worked a treat, I wonder if players here and in South Africa will consider the same should the ARU and SARU agree to cutting teams half way through the season.

They'd be without contract soon anyway so it won't help the players or anyone for that matter.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

id rather watch a ten team trans tasman comp, that this comp

Yes but if nz don't want to play ball I would prefer to watch a domestic comp which would have to be designed to our circumstances, than watch a super rugby product designed for the interests of sa and nz. I am open for a big and brave call to go alone and short term might be painful, but long term could be better base to.slowly rebuild oz rugby

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[Rugbynutter39]

That was 26 years ago. Useless to the current situation. Randwick have barely been a show of their former serves since 2004. Useless almost.

Yes I am struggling to see how randwick is anywhere near the major force or power base it was. Randwick stalwarts and fans may still have delusions they are but nope they so less relevant or strong as a club for the last decade.

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[Inside Shoulder]

^^^^^Have a look at Sydney colts 2017 thread.
On another note article in smh, admittedly lifted from the age, on tv rights.
Union not even mentioned.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/medi...-tv-great-rights-battles-20170323-gv58z9.html

 

[Dan54]

Yes but if nz don't want to play ball I would prefer to watch a domestic comp which would have to be designed to our circumstances, than watch a super rugby product designed for the interests of sa and nz. I am open for a big and brave call to go alone and short term might be painful, but long term could be better base to.slowly rebuild oz rugby

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Unfortunately Rugbynutter, last time there was just a domestic comp it was almost the death of Aus rugby, and only the fact that NZ teams came to play were what probably saved it, and is how the whole super rugby thing started!

 

[Dan54]

Paul Cully's latest take on it, and unfortunately probably one of the most realistic.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...-super-rugby-the-only-real-option-for-sanzaar

 

[Omar Comin']

Sorry but the argument that Australia doesn't have enough good players for 5 teams is ridiculous. It's a stupid point because rugby has a global player pool. If there aren't enough good Australian players for 5 teams then our teams should be able to sign more international players.

The question shouldn't be how many good players does a country have, it should be which cities or regions can support a professional rugby team. That in turn helps grassroots development in that region, and in the longer term that leads to more local players in the pro team (we can see this especially at the Force in the last couple of years).

This is all just a symptom of treating Super Rugby as a test rugby selection trial first and foremost. It is a model that works in New Zealand, but it doesn't work here because all the major competing sports are actually focused on making their pro leagues as good as possible, rather than some other goal. And as a result they have much greater reach and provide so much more local content and rugby becomes increasingly invisible.

 

[louie]

We could probably pick up an extra few thousand fans just by removing the rolling maul.

Let me point you in this direction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rugby_League

 

[kiap]

only the fact that NZ teams came to play were what probably saved it

NZ teams should go and play in South Africa more, in that case. Save them.

It will take some balls, but Australia's best option is to ditch the Soup.

The rights deals for Super Rugby, in terms of a regular-season comp, will continue heading south, no matter how the deck chairs are rearranged.

A champions league, sure. But February to June, get rid of South Africa. Leave that to the Kiwis, until it goes bust.

 

[zer0]

NZ teams should go and play in South Africa more, in that case. Save them.

It will take some balls, but Australia's best option is to ditch the Soup.

The rights deals for Super Rugby, in terms of a regular-season comp, will continue heading south, no matter how the deck chairs are rearranged.

A champions league, sure. But February to June, get rid of South Africa. Leave that to the Kiwis, until it goes bust.

Except that New Zealand wouldn't just play South Africa. They'd probably bring Japan along with them to take Australia's place.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Except that New Zealand wouldn't just play South Africa. They'd probably bring Japan along with them to take Australia's place.

Not unless we do it first. Offer the JRFU the opportunity to run multiple teams.

Anyway, Sth Africa might be on its way. Apparently Montpellier are working on a deal with Grey College which will see it effectively become a Montpellier Academy. I seriously doubt that this will be the first or only such agreement. They could be up against it in the years to come.

 

[zer0]

Not unless we do it first. Offer the JRFU the opportunity to run multiple teams.

That would rely on the shambolic ARU being able to get its act together faster than the reasonably well run NZRU, which already has its eyes set on Japan. I'd consider that to be very unlikely, to say the least.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

NZ teams should go and play in South Africa more, in that case. Save them.

It will take some balls, but Australia's best option is to ditch the Soup.

The rights deals for Super Rugby, in terms of a regular-season comp, will continue heading south, no matter how the deck chairs are rearranged.

A champions league, sure. But February to June, get rid of South Africa. Leave that to the Kiwis, until it goes bust.

If ARU do that they'll go broke long before SANZAR + Japan + ???.

Not unless we do it first. Offer the JRFU the opportunity to run multiple teams.

I strongly suspect that Japan would go with SANZAR rather than hitching their wagon to an otherwise Straya-only comp that will likely fail within the first TV rights cycle (assuming anyone buys them).
------------------------------------------------------
Can I suggest that anyone putting forward their solution to the problem first go back & read Strewthcobber's excellent post #556 then measure their solution against the "what everyone wants" list, then see how many of the "what SARU want" ,"what ARU want" & "what NZRU want" boxes it ticks. Highest score wins & funnily enough that's what'll happen in the real world, too.

 

[Dan54]

Sorry but the argument that Australia doesn't have enough good players for 5 teams is ridiculous. It's a stupid point because rugby has a global player pool. If there aren't enough good Australian players for 5 teams then our teams should be able to sign more international players.

e.

You know Omar, that is probably the best idea for having 5 teams in Australia, and could be done like Ireland and say ok only 1-2 players from any position say if Tahs and Reds each bought a 9, noone else could etc etc, so there still some kind of pathway for Aussie players. League and Soccer allow overseas players, and really fans don't care where they come from!!

 

[Dan54]

NZ teams should go and play in South Africa more, in that case. Save them.

It will take some balls, but Australia's best option is to ditch the Soup.

The rights deals for Super Rugby, in terms of a regular-season comp, will continue heading south, no matter how the deck chairs are rearranged.

A champions league, sure. But February to June, get rid of South Africa. Leave that to the Kiwis, until it goes bust.

Yep Kiap, I wasn't suggesting that was the case these days, but more back in early 90s.
As WOB says I suspect a champion's league without NZ or Sa would probably go bust fairly quick, as I tend to think there would only be Asian teams in it, not even sure if that would include Japan. From all reports about TV money etc, it is more for games with Kiwi teams playing rightly or wrongly as they seem to be the ones that are watched.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

And that Dan54 is how we could go it alone if we are prepared to be innovative and brave and do something different to what done in the past or be a follower for proven models adopted in other codes i.e Have 5 teams but allow less restrictions on international players etc.

As we create a better product we can generate better market share....we create crap product we don't.

But innovation needs to be across the board with the domestic product to be successful. E.g. NRC style points system or whatever it is that can make it more appealing to win fans in the incredibly competitive battle amongst various football codes in Oz then so be it as long as basics of rugby retained (re: read scrum, lineout etc).

The problem is we have cared too much about our international product (read the Wallabies) for too long at the expense of our domestic product. Only if this changes can we move forward. And yes outside of the large ex pat kiwi's living in Oz most Oz sport fans want to see Oz teams playing Oz teams and not kiwi teams against kiwi team or SAFA teams against SAFA teams....