Where to for Super Rugby?

[sunnyboys]

Strewthcobber. Super Rugby ratings weren't always thus. there have been a few contributors to the decline - Super Rugby product itself, decline in pay tv subscribers, performance of aus teams.

selling a product to FTA would require the broadcaster to understand the potential (and for RA to sell the potential!) - Channel Ten built both Supercars and BBL into substantial assets - only to see the controlling bodies flog them off to the highest bidder.

Channel Ten have virtually zero sport. to the extent they have re-launched Sports Tonight as way to fill the gap. it is one possibility. i admit I have no idea if the finances would stack up.

where did the Super Rugby viewers on foxtel go?? they once were always comfortably north of 100k per game. Reds v Tahs drew fantastic ratings. did they stop subscribing or are they watching afl/nrl?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

My point is Braveheart by allowing limits on number of players as marquees and fact NZ players playing for oz teams still eligible for AB's would allow for better kiwi players to be poached (don't discount attractiveness of living in oz) and by improving the product and hence fan appeal (and commercials) we could see a side like the Force included which on flipside would provide additional player opportunities for oz players which would offset those opportunities taken by foreign marquees. And with more successful product and hopefully some growth who is to say that could then not add another oz team in future years rather than current shrinkage we are seeking and likely to continue if stay on current super rugby trajectory.

This imho is only way Super Rugby can work and really shows why Twiggy was going down the path of seeking marquees for other teams and allowing any oz player who plays for any WSR team to be eligible for Wallabies as he understood this (need for open borders approach with marquee limits to provide for more team equalisation across borders and uncertainty of outcome).

As with current product being so unpopular and lacking fan appeal you wont' see any increasing oz player opportunities but only decreasing as more fans turn away from the game and hence commercially can't even support 4 teams which is pretty much case in point at the moment with things particularly dire for teams like the brumbies.

 

[Braveheart81]

Strewthcobber. Super Rugby ratings weren't always thus. there have been a few contributors to the decline - Super Rugby product itself, decline in pay tv subscribers, performance of aus teams.

selling a product to FTA would require the broadcaster to understand the potential (and for RA to sell the potential!) - Channel Ten built both Supercars and BBL into substantial assets - only to see the controlling bodies flog them off to the highest bidder.

Channel Ten have virtually zero sport. to the extent they have re-launched Sports Tonight as way to fill the gap. it is one possibility. i admit I have no idea if the finances would stack up.

where did the Super Rugby viewers on foxtel go?? they once were always comfortably north of 100k per game. Reds v Tahs drew fantastic ratings. did they stop subscribing or are they watching afl/nrl?

What's the potential though? They can already see from Wallabies ratings that outside of our playing the All Blacks and a few other exceptions the sport isn't popular and doesn't rate well.

We have a product that we generally want to play in prime time. Those are the times ratings need to be good and any competition we had wouldn't be close to providing that. Supercars is on during the day generally. BBL during a time of year when there is no competition.

I don't see any potential in getting any rugby competition on a FTA main channel during prime time. I also don't see anyone paying much at all for it.

It's a difficult situation because there are problems everywhere you look and with every option available.

There is already healthy financial competition for our players so I don't think you have the option of dialling back the quality a long way because you can't pay people and having faith that it will grow in time.

You would need huge investment by private owners to be able to build this sort of comp that contained enough top line players that it would be a compelling product. I'd love to see it happen but I can't see those private owners coming out of the woodwork suddenly. Twiggy has been the only one who has really shown any interest and willingness to lose a substantial amount of money.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

https://www.pwc.com.au/publications...-changer.html?icid=press6-talent-andrewforest​

It is this bit out of the above recent article (posted by ForceFan on where to twiggy thread) that twiggy's team and RA still collaborating to find a solution to current super rugby woes together in terms of LONG term solution as agree there is no easy solution and hence where collaboration between Twiggy's team and RA is 1+1 = 3 for me (bold is my emphasis).​

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"Forrest says constructive talks with Rugby Australia, which manages Australia’s involvement in the Super Rugby competition, are continuing. He described new chief executive Raelene Castle as “a breath of fresh air”. “I think we are making progress,” he says. “The Force has been really co-operative and patient, so we needed to keep the train rolling.” ​

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[sunnyboys]

i truly do find this discussion fascinating, maddening and somewhat depressing.

So to summarise the Pay tv v FTA issue - viewing numbers on pay tv have been on a long term downward trend. no FTA would want it on current ratings. no FTA would pay. need the money, so stay with pay tv, despite it meaning further erosion of the fanbase. this could potentially/likely lead to ever smaller broadcast deals locally. and lower game day takings for state unions. possibly a further reduction in teams BUT there is nothing else to be done.

hell of a pickle.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

get the product right - put on pay tv and FTA (seven two like shute shield and twiggy ball) and get someone with deep pockets to help fund early years while give a go to try and grow fan base (and hence commercial attractiveness) - hello twiggy - what is that you say - if we allow force in - you will help us fund this - rightio lets go.

 

[kiap]

I'd argue the 'golden generation' of talent (primarily developed by the NSL, actually) had much more to do with our resurgence than the development of the A-League.

Great. Without wanting to nitpick, I agree with most of that.

It's not taking away from my point which is to rebut the comment that:

“where the Aussie comp is an inferior comp and so only produces inferior international team”​

The NSL was a national comp where Aussie teams played each other. If, as you argue, the best national side was primarily developed by the NSL then clearly having an Aussie comp does not produce an inferior national team.

That's not to say the NSL was a golden era.

Let's not forget that the socceroos were beaten to the punch by Canada and Iran in the 90s.

Overall, the A-League era has been better for the round ball code.

A-League or not, if the Socceroos were still having to play against Uruguay to qualify they wouldn't be making World Cups either....

Hey, the Aussies knocked out Uruguay last time they played a qualifier!

Not that we'd want to play off against them now.

Iran or Canada is better.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I am very sceptical of the value of being on secondary channels for a sport. Looking at the A-League this year, they average around 50k per game on One. It means giving up one of the prime assets, especially if you comit to a Friday night (say) and means you have to accept less from PayTV for the competition

The kicker is that they are experiencing a similar reduction in interest across the board despite being on FTA for years. It doesn't appear to have driven much interest.

 

[Strewthcobber]

selling a product to FTA would require the broadcaster to understand the potential (and for RA to sell the potential!) - Channel Ten built both Supercars and BBL into substantial assets - only to see the controlling bodies flog them off to the highest bidder.

Don't forget the Big Bash was originally on Foxtel - and did huge numbers

This from Dec 2011

FOX Sports broadcast of the T20 Big Bash League sure pulled in some big numbers on the weekend.
An average audience of 476,000 viewers watched the MCG clash, making it the fourth-most watched program in subscription television history.
It was FOX Sports’ highest-rating cricket broadcast of all-time.

It was a very risk-free move by Ten, they knew there was interest. On the face of it, around ten times as much as those interested in Super Rugby, the opposite of a risk free move

 

[sunnyboys]

in 2011-12 the BBL on Fox averaged 230,000 per game.

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/big-bash-league-tops-melbourne-television-ratings/2013-12-21

In 2017-18 BBL on Ten averaged 649,000 per game (major cities only) or 947,000 per game (including regional).

https://tvtonight.com.au/2018/02/big-bash-league-ends-on-a-high.html

 

[Braveheart81]

If a FTA channel thought they could triple rugby viewers from the current Foxtel numbers after showing the competition for 6 years on their main channel in prime time they would demand even more money to show it.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Thought AUS has played in more world cup finals than any other nation.....

Straya four Finals for two wins, NZ also four Finals for three wins. England three for one, France three for none & SA two for two are the other Finalists.

 

[cyclopath]

Straya four Finals for two wins, NZ also four Finals for three wins. England three for one, France three for none & SA two for two are the other Finalists.

Finalists

NZ - 4/3
Aus - 4/2
Eng - 3/1
France - 3/0
SA - 2/2 - best finalists obviously!
The beginning of the RWC period coincided with an upswing in Aus team quality (mid-80s onwards) then we stole a march with the introduction of professionalism.

Echo-co-co-co...................

 

[kiap]

Situation normal. Sanzaar zombie.

Super Rugby stalemate is a shocker​

11 Jul, 2018​

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… It probably won't come as any surprise that the Sanzaar executive met in Singapore and didn't agree on any preferred way to revamp Super Rugby.​

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No surprise because endless discussions that go nowhere has been par for the course in Super Rugby history.​

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No surprise, because confidence in the people charged with running the competition is not high after years of bickering, squabbling, procrastinating and poor decision-making.​

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… If there was a particularly telling indictment of where things stand, it came in the last few weeks when Springboks star Duane Vermeulen opted to sign with Japanese club Kubota Spears rather than take on offer from the Stormers.​

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… players are reluctant to make a commitment to Super Rugby without knowing how it will be structured in 2020.​

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The longer there is a delay, the more likely it is that other players will opt to move elsewhere, which in turn will make it an even harder battle to win back fans and restore credibility.​

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… By early 2017 it was apparent Super Rugby was failing everyone – players, fans and accountants and hence the decision was made to revert to the old format of 15 teams in three conferences this year.​

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But this 15-team format is only supposed to be a temporary solution while a better, longer-term future is mapped out. The main reason it is a short-term fix is that it is taking too much out of the players. …​

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Read more: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12087096​

 

[hoggy]

They can't come up with a solution because that requires a square peg in a round hole, no matter what you try it doesn't fit, so all you can do is bash it in, which is why we are here in the first place.

 

[wamberal]

They can't come up with a solution because that requires a square peg in a round hole, no matter what you try it doesn't fit, so all you can do is bash it in, which is why we are here in the first place.

If only rugby was a popular sport in this country, then there would be no problem. But it isn't. That is why we are here now, in the first place, and for the forseeable future.

 

[kiap]

And, of the constituent members, there's only one giving off some semblance of competence and not borderline broke.

Unfortunately those same guys are also a bad option for everyone else if they obtain control.

 

[hoggy]

If only rugby was a popular sport in this country, then there would be no problem. But it isn't. That is why we are here now, in the first place, and for the forseeable future.

Your right rugby is simply not popular enough in this country, but that is not the reason why we are here in the first place, we are here because we've spent the last 20 years banging a square peg in a round hole and continuing to do so is not going to make any difference for the foreseeable future.

I agree there are no easy fixes, however just kicking the can down the road again just ensures the game here will forever remain simply not popular enough.

 

[kiap]

If only rugby was a popular sport in this country, then there would be no problem. But it isn't. That is why we are here now, in the first place, and for the forseeable future.

Ahh, no.

There's a litany of bad decisions (ranging up to outright corrupt dealings) for long periods of time right to the present day, punctuated by brief spells in the sunlight.

The game doesn't need to be a top four mass-entertainment sport to be in good health, and even growing.

But rugby's various trustees, for want of a better descriptor, have to loosen a share of the direct ownership and control of the professional side. They're not up to running it solo and it's turning into a millstone weighing down the overall game.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Situation normal. Sanzaar zombie.
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Read more: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12087096[/INDENT]

Written by the same bloke who two weeks ago told us the Sunwolves were toast & SA would downsize again. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Gregor Paul has about as much credibility as Growden. I really wouldn't take any notice of this kinda reporting until/ unless it starts coming from the likes of Marc Hinton or Jim Keyes, the two guys people from NZR will leak to when they have something they want to run up the flagpole to see who salutes.