Where to for Super Rugby?

[Brumby Runner]

And if Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, Perth and Brisbane had two teams each supplemented by Country teams in both NSW and Qld, we could have home games each and every weekend. Sounds like a souped up version of the NRC.

 

[kiap]

And if Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, Perth and Brisbane had two teams each supplemented by Country teams in both NSW and Qld, we could have home games each and every weekend. Sounds like a souped up version of the NRC.

Baby steps.

Start with Supe, the 4 (plus 1, +1) and soup up from there. You might reach your type of scenario over a fair length of time.

In my opinion, a +1 team can also include a non-Australian team. Others may not agree.

But remember these teams are fully pro. It's not like NRC.

 

[Dan54]

Geez Kiap, I suppose we will get a lot of interest in a comp with 4 teams, mind you most should make the Semi finals huh?
Seriously I know where you coming from, but having a closed conference with additional teams would mean teams from where? Islands would be great, but I not sure Wallabies make enough money to pay for the comp. I agree would be good if there was enough money from Aus tv to pay for said comp, but is there? I not sure they would make a lot of money selling it in Europe etc. I sure RA has actually thought of going alone, but I bet they would have to have a TV station backing it, because for all we think it great someone has to pay the bills.

 

[Dan54]

Baby steps.

Start with Supe, the 4 (plus 1, +1) and soup up from there. You might reach your type of scenario over a fair length of time.

In my opinion, a +1 team can also include a non-Australian team. Others may not agree.

But remember these teams are fully pro. It's not like NRC.

The unfortunate things with baby steps is you have to have enough cash to last until you are actually past them and running.

 

[kiap]

Geez Kiap, I suppose we will get a lot of interest in a comp with 4 teams, mind you most should make the Semi finals huh?

4 + 1 + 1 = 6 teams.

teams from where? Islands would be great

Teams like Force, Sunwolves without projecting too far ahead.

Islands option I'd leave mostly to NZ, particularly a combined PI team …

I not sure Wallabies make enough money to pay for the comp. I agree would be good if there was enough money from Aus tv to pay for said comp, but is there? I not sure they would make a lot of money selling it in Europe etc. I sure RA has actually thought of going alone …

My proposal does not involve RA going it alone. This would remain at the combined Sanzaar desk for broadcast negotiations, as it does now.

The topic of this thread is "Where to for Super Rugby". The answer to that is It's Dead without changes. Hence my changes which are, by intent, small.

The unfortunate things with baby steps is you have to have enough cash to last until you are actually past them and running.

Precisely the opposite is true.

This is not a green fields proposal - you can only do that if you have the cash like Forrest.

You evolve from the existing (already funded, albeit declining position) to a better position. The changes are:

1. Split the derby components from the rest of the soup, formats then controlled by the original partners.
2. Rejig the the transcontinental comp

If you don't have a lot of extra cash to splash you need to use baby steps. Small additions.
.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There's a way of feeling out whether it would be possible. I've been following the development of MLR over the past 18 months. Part of the bid process is the payment of a $1m bond payment and the submission of financial proving the ability to cover the costs of operations for 5 seasons.

We could do something similar in an EOI nature. See how many come up. Tell them what the minimum amount that required and run in as a single entity league with individual ownership in the respective locations.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

4 + 1 + 1 = 6 teams.


Teams like Force, Sunwolves without projecting too far ahead.

Islands option I'd leave mostly to NZ, particularly a combined PI team …


My proposal does not involve RA going it alone. This would remain at the combined Sanzaar desk for broadcast negotiations, as it does now.

The topic of this thread is "Where to for Super Rugby". The answer to that is It's Dead without changes. Hence my changes which are, by intent, small.


Precisely the opposite is true.

This is not a green fields proposal - you can only do that if you have the cash like Forrest.

You evolve from the existing (already funded, albeit declining position) to a better position.

The changes are:

1. Split the derby components from the rest of the soup, formats then controlled by original partners.
2. Rejig the the transcontinental comp

NZ doesn't want more derbies while we want to maintain them. Your solution would work if we look at Super Rugby as a two phased proposition. The first phase would be 12 weeks. We take our 5 plus the Sunwolves and either a Fijian or combined PI team. Could even base it in one of our cities. That would form one of two conference 'leagues'.

The other will feature the 5 NZ teams, 4 SA teams and the Jags. Running for the same time frame. It wouldn't completely eliminate the doubling up of derbies but it will cut them down and if scheduled the way they want they could avoid them completely. But 12 games as well.

Top four from both conference 'leagues' forward into an elimination finals series.

Or

The JRFU are apparently looking to scrap the Sunwolves post RWC and replace them with one of the Top League clubs. Apparently their are several interesting with the Wild Knights being the front runner. We have also seen the Aus Super Rugby teams play games against Top League opposition during the June window. We could always look to do something with them.

Take our 5 plus Fiji and two or even three Japanese teams that recruit with the focus of being competitive first. That's 8 to nine teams all within our time zones. Again. Could also use a combined PI team based out of somewhere like Campbelltown Stadium.

 

[Strewthcobber]

There's a way of feeling out whether it would be possible. I've been following the development of MLR over the past 18 months. Part of the bid process is the payment of a $1m bond payment and the submission of financial proving the ability to cover the costs of operations for 5 seasons.

We could do something similar in an EOI nature. See how many come up. Tell them what the minimum amount that required and run in as a single entity league with individual ownership in the respective locations.

MLR salary cap is $350,000 apparently(?)

So you're probably only looking at a million or so a year to keep things solvent.

Surely our domestic comp has to have higher ambition than semi-pros.

You'd probably need something like 10 times the resources if we are going to have a comp that a) keeps Wallabys in the country in a competitive environment and b) can be competitive with NZ/other super rugby teams at an intercontinental tournament

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[WorkingClassRugger]

MLR salary cap is $350,000 apparently(?)

So you're probably only looking at a million or so a year to keep things solvent.

Surely our domestic comp has to have higher ambition than semi-pros.

You'd probably need something like 10 times the resources if we are going to have a comp that a) keeps Wallabys in the country in a competitive environment and b) can be competitive with NZ/other super rugby teams at an intercontinental tournament

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That's the in season cap. There are actually three different caps. The first in a pre-preseason cap for the teams that start their training before the league's official preseason period. The second is the preseason cap and the third and final is the in season cap of $350,000.

But I'm not suggesting we copy it exactly. More use it as a framework. Right down to broadcast. Which they produce in house.

 

[kiap]

NZ doesn't want more derbies while we want to maintain them. Your solution would work if we look at Super Rugby as a two phased proposition.

Yep. NZ adjust their derbies to suit. Likewise the others.

The JRFU are apparently looking to scrap the Sunwolves post RWC and replace them with one of the Top League clubs. Apparently their are several interesting with the Wild Knights being the front runner. We have also seen the Aus Super Rugby teams play games against Top League opposition during the June window. We could always look to do something with them.

Indeed. And Twiggy is also looking at Japanese clubs.

Take our 5 plus Fiji and two or even three Japanese teams that recruit with the focus of being competitive first. That's 8 to nine teams all within our time zones. Again. Could also use a combined PI team based out of somewhere like Campbelltown Stadium.

No doubt the potential is there.

For mine, though, don't try to jump too far in one go.

 

[kiap]

You'd probably need something like 10 times the resources if we are going to have a comp that a) keeps Wallabys in the country in a competitive environment and b) can be competitive with NZ/other super rugby teams

Correct. 10 to 15 times.

 

[kiap]

But I'm not suggesting we copy it exactly. More use it as a framework.

The MLR looks good.

As I've said elsewhere, business model-wise it is already better than NRC. Playing standards not quite yet, but with the backing being talked about, it's probably not too far off.

 

[Strewthcobber]

For comparison, the A-League is charging new entrants $15m and it's anticipated that League teams lose around $2m per year

Their (soft) salary cap is $3m a year, which is much closer to where we need to be

https://www.afr.com/business/sport/...new-club-in-sydneys-southwest-20180607-h112nh

 

[kiap]

^ Yeah

https://www.afr.com/business/sport/...new-club-in-sydneys-southwest-20180607-h112nh

Pay-walled, however the lede says this:

Billionaire Lang Walker admits to being more a rugby union fan, but he says he can see a good business reason for backing a bid for a new A-League soccer club in Sydney's south-west.​

​

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Well the irony is last few weeks of super rugby for oz sides been watchable whilst what force offered for last few exhibition games been unwatchable and below Shute shield club rugby level.

So if anyone thinks on this basis WSR is the magic answer they are sadly mistaken.

I just want someone to find better answers and for all parties to work together to find better answers as at this point super rugby looks better option than World Series rugby...


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[kiap]

I just want someone to find better answers

So what improvement needs to be made to Super?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

See the last 600 pages kiap where many suggestions are made but where we all agree finding a perfect answer that can be easily implemented is well not easy!


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[Dan54]

See the last 600 pages kiap where many suggestions are made but where we all agree finding a perfect answer that can be easily implemented is well not easy!


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That's my point RN, I agree Super rugby needs changing, as I am sure Sanzaar does, but just not sure what the best way is, because it has to be something that suits everyone ,including the TV people that pay the wages of our players!

 

[wamberal]

That's my point RN, I agree Super rugby needs changing, as I am sure Sanzaar does, but just not sure what the best way is, because it has to be something that suits everyone ,including the TV people that pay the wages of our players!

Which is the crux of the matter. Nobody knows what is the best way forward. Maybe we should start at the other end. What is the least worst, and work forward from there.


The key question is, what do the New Zealanders really want? We need them more than they need us, but we still represent a potential viewing audience for their franchises, and therefore some potential spondulicks.

 

[hoggy]

Which is the crux of the matter. Nobody knows what is the best way forward. Maybe we should start at the other end. What is the least worst, and work forward from there.


The key question is, what do the New Zealanders really want? We need them more than they need us, but we still represent a potential viewing audience for their franchises, and therefore some potential spondulicks.

The New Zealanders want what they have got for the last 20 years a competition perfectly suited to there rugby set-up. We've been involved with NZ rugby for 20 yrs and where are we. It is this beggars attitude that holds the game back here in my opinion.
So is the solution to take the least crappiest deal that we can get.

I was at a BBQ yesterday with about 20 people, we had Fox in the lounge area, I just couldn't believe that for the whole day not once was Super rugby put on or even a score check done, it just blew me away.

I don't know what the answer is, but it sure ain't just more Super rugby.