Where to for Super Rugby?

[Inside Shoulder]

The biggest drain on RA finances are funding a substantial number of professional players. If that becomes outsourced to another competition/funding entity such as Twiggy and other owners in WSR it would be unbelievably good for RA.

Moving the club competition off the books of RA and the state unions would be huge for RA.

The Wallabies is what creates the bulk of their revenue and their main requirement to keep that as strong as possible is to have a good stable of players playing in Australia.

I hear RA is looking to bring on Isaia Toeava as a specialist consultant to help them with this plan.

Can someone tell me what the joke is with Isaia Toeava - he seems be mentioned all threads as both the problem and the answer

 

[wamberal]

Can someone tell me what the joke is with Isaia Toeava - he seems be mentioned all threads as both the problem and the answer

There is nothing about him worth worrying about. He has become a punch line for every joke. By definition, all the jokes are not funny. If they were, he would not feature.

 

[joeyjohnz]

Twiggy can bring and IMO will bring the RA to its knees and it will cost him next to nothing.

How you ask, next year Twiggy simply pays for one maybe two regions to join his competition. Say Newcastle, and they play one game at Perth, then he picks another from somewhere. Suddenly he has club land supporting him. Then its game over for RA.

The rumour mill had it that the Western Sydney Rams made enquiries/had discussions about Twiggy-ball when it was first announced it 6? months ago.

If he picked them up Super Rugby for Aus would be flushed. I'd boldly predict the Rams will have larger crowds than the Tahs in their first year.

In all honesty; Super Rugby's best reiteration post 2020; and the one that actually guarantees growth in the long run is a champions cup style format. It enables us to constantly tweak allocations to meet the market and take a slice of each of euro & american pie.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Can someone tell me what the joke is with Isaia Toeava - he seems be mentioned all threads as both the problem and the answer

I think it has something to do with a bet made for the Tahs/Blues game.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yep, apparently BH lost an avatar bet with Dismal, and has to include a reference to Toeava in every post for a week.

Must make a nice change for Dismal as he's usually the one who loses.

 

[Pfitzy]

We all know RA will partner up with the NZRU. They're too weak not to. So. Seeing as that the likely outcome we could end up with a Pacific Super 12. Our five. There five plus Fiji and a combined PI squad funded by
The group who tried to buy the Warriors based out of Hawaii. Which is somethinv they actually expressed interest in. q

I think supplying 5 teams at our end is wildly optimistic. We still don't have the development pathways in place to do this, and the latest move to have an U19 setup will do precisely zero to help that.

Five kiwi sides. Four Aussie sides. Fiji to start with, assisted by WR (World Rugby) funding. It would need the NRC OR Premier Rugby to be scrapped. And we know which way that will go.

 

[dru]

I think supplying 5 teams at our end is wildly optimistic. We still don't have the development pathways in place to do this, and the latest move to have an U19 setup will do precisely zero to help that.

Five kiwi sides. Four Aussie sides. Fiji to start with, assisted by WR (World Rugby) funding. It would need the NRC OR Premier Rugby to be scrapped. And we know which way that will go.

You don’t have an Australian competition with 4 teams. It’s a SANZAAR competition. And under the SANZAAR arrangements it is unlikely that 4 will survive.

Even less likely that WR (World Rugby) can truly cover the cost of a Fiji team.

Optimism there, I think, Pfitzy.

 

[stoff]

Love the idea, and love the passion. But it starts off at way to high a level IMO.

WE are in deep deep trouble, SANZAAR is totally out of its depth as they want to be in charge. Key stakeholders mostly see themselves as the centre of the universe and very often fail to see logic that shows a different course of action to their own findings.

There is actually a business term for it called "Confirmation Bias" .

What we have always needed is a National Domestic Competition. However these things need capital, lots of capital and time.

Rugby in Australia in its current state has neither the monetary capital, nor time on its side, the cruel would add RA also lacks intellectual capital as well.

RA needs to create a competition and sell the teams in it, thus people owning the teams will provide the capital and where with all to make it work.

Twiggy can bring and IMO will bring the RA to its knees and it will cost him next to nothing.

How you ask, next year Twiggy simply pays for one maybe two regions to join his competition. Say Newcastle, and they play one game at Perth, then he picks another from somewhere. Suddenly he has club land supporting him. Then its game over for RA.

My reading of the tea leafs is we are already behind by two years in developing a plan "B" I hope that we have time to save it. By this I mean hopefully get back to a 2010 level of interest.

Doesn’t WCR’s plan address this? Put aside the issues around the current management and what they may do. This plan allows the creation of a high value product in a new champions league. It is commonly accepted that the test matches are where the rights money is generated. This new comp should generate solid revenue. The local competitions then provide the bulk content which again has some value. At least for Australia, this is the most expedient and achievable way to develop some form of national competition. We are in a bit of an introspective frenzy. Southern Hemisphere rugby still has currency up north and a champions league would help preserve that. It also creates a local comp which means more local teams winning which is what helped positivity around the game this year before we started getting beat up by the foreign teams.

Edit: get the system up and running and you can sell the teams off later, although private ownership doesn’t seem to work here by and large.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[half]

^^^^^
staff

Both you and WCR could be right and I fully understand where your coming from.

My concern is and I understand this is boring but we need to create structures that encourage investment in rugby. We need capital injections because in simple terms to re-structure from where we are now is difficult as we are under capitalised.

We also need more heads around the table to discuss strategies moving forward.

Finally we need to have faith in the game, we seem so scared to venture away from Super Rugby because we think we cannot create the same revenue flows nor keep players.

Deep down in my soul my belief is their is more than one Twiggy out there and if we create a structure whereby a person or group of people can own a side, then we will find people willing to invest.

 

[SouthernX]

I think supplying 5 teams at our end is wildly optimistic. We still don't have the development pathways in place to do this, and the latest move to have an U19 setup will do precisely zero to help that.

Five kiwi sides. Four Aussie sides. Fiji to start with, assisted by WR (World Rugby) funding. It would need the NRC OR Premier Rugby to be scrapped. And we know which way that will go.

Care to explain your logic how a u19 competition isn’t a development pathwah? I’d argue differently that this is a good thing

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Care to explain your logic how a u19 competition isn’t a development pathwah? I’d argue differently that this is a good thing

How will it be picked?
The oz schoolboys from the year prior would be my bet. As we have seen that merely perpetuates the shortcomings in that selection process and creates a massive chicane at the end of school.
They need to be playing in tough comps against each other every week not jetting off in a B team to the Hong Kong 7s then playing the next week in the u20s Oceania tournament.

 

[Braveheart81]

How will it be picked?
The oz schoolboys from the year prior would be my bet. As we have seen that merely perpetuates the shortcomings in that selection process and creates a massive chicane at the end of school.
They need to be playing in tough comps against each other every week not jetting off in a B team to the Hong Kong 7s then playing the next week in the u20s Oceania tournament.

The players will have had a year of club rugby/colts out of high school beforehand so hopefully it gives a chance for players who missed out on selection then to show what they can do.

The reason I am mentioning Isaia Toeava in every post this week is because I lost a bet with Dismal Pillock.

Needless to say, old mate Isaia finds the whole thing pretty amusing.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^^^ I wouldn't presume to speak for the Special Project but I'm finding it a hoot

 

[oztimmay]

The players will have had a year of club rugby/colts out of high school beforehand so hopefully it gives a chance for players who missed out on selection then to show what they can do.

The reason I am mentioning Isaia Toeava in every post this week is because I lost a bet with Dismal Pillock.

Needless to say, old mate Isaia finds the whole thing pretty amusing.

This is probably the single greatest loss of an avatar bet I've ever seen.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Can someone tell me what the joke is with Isaia Toeava - he seems be mentioned all threads as both the problem and the answer

Isaia Toeava is the problem, the answer, the sun, the moon and all of the stars. Just ask Braveheart. Preferably before the weekend.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

There is nothing about him worth worrying about. He has become a punch line for every joke. By definition, all the jokes are not funny. If they were, he would not feature.

 

[Joe King]

The emergence of both MLR and LSR is a major reason why the idea of Super Rugby transforming into a Champion League structure is so attractive to me. The opportunities are emerging that could allow for a radical change in how we compete among ourselves. If South Africa remains then I still believe Super Rugby in its current guise should be disbanded. NZ and SA can still compete with one another in their own structure if the wish but Super Rugby should be completely re-orientated.

Imagine this. We go across to the IPRC. NZ and SA either along with or without the Jaguares compete in another structure. And the MLR and LSR run their seasons.

At the end of each. The top 4 from the NZ/SA comp. Top 3 from the IPRC. Top 2 from MLR and the winner of the LSR enter the Super 10. Two pools of 5. Four games each. Two home and two away. Top 2 from each pool progress to the semi-finals. All up 6 weeks to crown a champion.

It contains the best of all worlds. We get a competition that caters for our time zones while tapping into an emerging marketplace. NZ and SA get to compete with one another. And SANZAAR gets access to the Americas without actually having to set anything up. Everyone wins.

This would also open the door for some really interesting reforms on the international scene. Aligning ourselves in this way the RC could be expanded in much the same way as the European/Asian structures are formatted.

The RC could be the top division with the current 4 plus a fifth. Based off the best performer at the 2019 RWC. But for this exercise we'll say Japan. Below that is another division of 5 teams. Again using the 2019 RWC as guidance. So, we'll say Fiji, USA, Uruguay, possibly Samoa and Canada. Beyond that a third division involving Tonga, Chile, Brazil, Colombia, and either another PI/Americas or even Asian nation.

Set up a promotion/relegation system. With the last place team from each division having a playoff game against the winner of the one below. Again, I think that would be quite compelling.

Send it in

 

[KOB1987]

This is probably the single greatest loss of an avatar bet I've ever seen.

Revenge will be sweet when Dismal has to spend a week heaping praise on Tom Carter!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Revenge will be sweet when Dismal has to spend a week heaping praise on Tom Carter!

Dismal will have my deepest sympathies if that were to occur.

 

[Joe King]

The emergence of both MLR and LSR is a major reason why the idea of Super Rugby transforming into a Champion League structure is so attractive to me. The opportunities are emerging that could allow for a radical change in how we compete among ourselves. If South Africa remains then I still believe Super Rugby in its current guise should be disbanded. NZ and SA can still compete with one another in their own structure if the wish but Super Rugby should be completely re-orientated.

Imagine this. We go across to the IPRC. NZ and SA either along with or without the Jaguares compete in another structure. And the MLR and LSR run their seasons.

At the end of each. The top 4 from the NZ/SA comp. Top 3 from the IPRC. Top 2 from MLR and the winner of the LSR enter the Super 10. Two pools of 5. Four games each. Two home and two away. Top 2 from each pool progress to the semi-finals. All up 6 weeks to crown a champion.

It contains the best of all worlds. We get a competition that caters for our time zones while tapping into an emerging marketplace. NZ and SA get to compete with one another. And SANZAAR gets access to the Americas without actually having to set anything up. Everyone wins.

This would also open the door for some really interesting reforms on the international scene. Aligning ourselves in this way the RC could be expanded in much the same way as the European/Asian structures are formatted.

The RC could be the top division with the current 4 plus a fifth. Based off the best performer at the 2019 RWC. But for this exercise we'll say Japan. Below that is another division of 5 teams. Again using the 2019 RWC as guidance. So, we'll say Fiji, USA, Uruguay, possibly Samoa and Canada. Beyond that a third division involving Tonga, Chile, Brazil, Colombia, and either another PI/Americas or even Asian nation.

Set up a promotion/relegation system. With the last place team from each division having a playoff game against the winner of the one below. Again, I think that would be quite compelling.

Just thinking, another incentive for SA might be that travel becomes a lot fairer for them.