Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

Ok , but that will be after I'm dead anyway QH, because I'll keep watching it.

 

[Quick Hands]

Ok , but that will be after I'm dead anyway QH, because I'll keep watching it.

Like those Japanese soldiers in the jungle still thinking that the war was on 30 years after it was over.

 

[charlesalan]

Good news - one Aussie club will win this week, Rebels v Brumbies, and if the Reds can defeat the Sunwolves, two wins for us... and if Tahs can defeat the Crusaders in an away game, that will make it three wins!!!

 

[James Pettifer]

I'd say that's too high a % for local players.

I'd also add that there would have to be a better distribution of funds given the less economically gifted nations being touted.

SuperRugby must be one of the only club competitions in the world where teams have completely different cohorts of players that they can select from. If SuperRugby is to survive, then this needs to change and the competition be a true club completion rather than some sort of selection trial for national teams.

Or alternatively scrap it entirely. National completions with some sort of champions league at the end. Look to the long term on how to build a sustainable platform for Rugby Union in Australia. Pick players for the Wallabies from everywhere. Save the money on the expensive stars - it’s hardly like they are drawing crowds - and then we can get away from comparing ourselves to NZ every week, be found wanting and watch the crowds continue to decline year on year. Oh, and on FTA. That is essential.

The latter option is going to be aweful for a few years but in the long term, Australian Rugby will be much better for it.

All we need now is someone who is willing to put forward some capital to get it started up.

 

[half]

Just to keep those smart up to date Super Rugby admins on their toes. Soccer launched the E-League to amazing success.

The AFL have reacted. Will we. Now AFL does not have an E-Game so how did they do it.

Interesting from the Fin Review.

http://www.afr.com/business/sport/afl-dives-into-esports-with-league-of-legends-deal-20180503-h0zlyo

In another big move by a traditional sport into the world of e-sports – otherwise known as video games – the AFL will on Monday announce a joint venture with the company behind the wildly popular League of Legends game that will include a state of origin style tournament in Melbourne later this year.
The AFL's agreement with the US-headquartered Riot Games, now fully owned by Chinese technology giant Tencent, is a first for the governing body of the biggest sport in Australia and follows two clubs, Essendon and Adelaide Crows, buying local League of Legends teams.
As part of the deal, the AFL and Riot Games will launch a stadium tournament in Melbourne in November, potentially held at the AFL's privately-owned Etihad Stadium, that will see the best players from the eight-team Oceanic League of Legends compete for their home states in a new short and intense competition.
While critics will note the AFL is more keen on state of origin matches in e-sports than it is when it comes to their traditional Australian rules football, the governing body's general manager of growth, digital and audience, Darren Birch, says there are compelling reasons for the AFL to tap into the expertise of a digital-savvy partner that produces a game that has well more than 100 million players around the world each month.
"If you look at our audience they are often engaged early in their lives, they play Auskick then, but we lose some of them when they became teenagers and we have to compete for their time with other things," Birch tells The Australian Financial Review.

"League of Legends is something that has a lot of engagement in that 13 to 39 year old market, especially 13-24 year olds, who are very loyal to and to the brand that support it. So we can see the opportunities there, both in terms of what we can learn from Riot Games in a digital space and also commercial opportunities."
The AFL has had its own video game for a more than two decades, but the lack of worldwide interest in its sport means it can't necessarily go down the path of other codes like tennis and soccer.
Football Federation Australia, for example, held a E-League tournament this year that saw players representing the 10 A-League teams play each other in the popular FIFA game. E-League games averaged about 130,000 viewers on the streaming platform Twitch each week, double expectations, and 12.5 million social mention impressions, while more than 100,000 people visited the A-League website via the E-League.
Birch wants the crossover between the AFL and its League of Legends foray to have a similar effect, at least from a branding point of view, and for other clubs to follow the lead of Adelaide and Essendon.

"I think you can't just be looking at a traditional football offering if you want to keep expanding your audience. We've done research that shows 22 per cent of AFL fans are also interested in e-sports, so there is a connection there. And I can see a time when our clubs having e-sports teams is just as common as having an AFLW team, a men's side or a netball team as some already do. The barriers to entry to having an e-sports team are low in comparison to doing other things."
Daniel Ringland, Head of Oceanic e-sports for Riot Games, welcomes the AFL joint venture, which could lead to a purpose built e-sports studio in Melbourne that may be part of the upcoming $200 million revamp of Etihad Stadium.
Yet he is cautious about a big increase in the local Oceanic League of Legends, stressing the same points as those in traditional sports do when considering expansion. "We want to make sure we don't dilute the competition we already have, and we want to keep growing the strength of our secondary competition so when expansion comes it makes sense.
"But what the AFL do well is run competitions, put on events that you can make good money from and they are very good on the integrity side of things. That's what we want to do even better at Riot Games as well."

Birch can also see commercialisation opportunities for the upcoming League of Legends state of origin tournament, in which player will represent the state or territory where they attend high school.
That could including finding a naming rights sponsor for the tournament itself, apparel partners for the players and also sponsors for the individual teams.
"We've also got the chance to introduce our existing commercial partners to e-sports and the digital side of things, which is increasingly important for everyone. We are really excited about this, and it is really just leveraging our existing expertise."

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

SARU aren't going to walk away from Super Rugby any time soon for the same reason RA can't: the biggest component of the TV money is the Internationals & Roux (SARU CEO) has already acknowledged that they can't expect to dump Super Rugby but remain part of TRC. That's not to say they won't end up with 4 x Super Rugby & 4 x Pro"x" teams, but you have to wonder when & how they're gunna have eight competitive franchises when they couldn't achieve six not so long ago.

 

[dru]

SARU aren't going to walk away from Super Rugby any time soon for the same reason RA can't: the biggest component of the TV money is the Internationals & Roux (SARU CEO) has already acknowledged that they can't expect to dump Super Rugby but remain part of TRC. That's not to say they won't end up with 4 x Super Rugby & 4 x Pro"x" teams, but you have to wonder when & how they're gunna have eight competitive franchises when they couldn't achieve six not so long ago.

WoB - the telecast deal merges both international SANZAAR matches and Super Rugby? Christ that is going to get messy when ultimately change is forced - which it will be if not implemented sooner.

There remains an essential problem in Super - the skewed quality levels. NZ acknowledges this (screams about it as much as we do) but doesnot seem to have any thoughts on what to do. Bringing in nanother developing nation (USA) may help funding, but will only exagerate the current lop-sided competition.

Surely, and fundamentally this is in NZ hands, like it or not. Short of introducing more Kiwi teams, spreading the Kiwi talent, or further shrinking to greatness (which will surely kill the pro game in Australia, further complicating the picture for the Kiwis), what options are being considered?

Publicly nothing.

If I'm right it is devastating for australia who cant help themselves, but it is a piss poor result for NZ as well. They'd be better to cut Australia and cross fingers that we have the ability to return in time.

 

[hoggy]

SARU aren't going to walk away from Super Rugby any time soon for the same reason RA can't: the biggest component of the TV money is the Internationals & Roux (SARU CEO) has already acknowledged that they can't expect to dump Super Rugby but remain part of TRC. That's not to say they won't end up with 4 x Super Rugby & 4 x Pro"x" teams, but you have to wonder when & how they're gunna have eight competitive franchises when they couldn't achieve six not so long ago.

Yes they can, if they pull out of Super rugby then NZ & Aus will need that test revenue equally if not more. The whole set up is an absolute cluster fuck and needs to be confined to the garbage bin.

 

[Omar Comin']

SARU aren't going to walk away from Super Rugby any time soon for the same reason RA can't: the biggest component of the TV money is the Internationals & Roux (SARU CEO) has already acknowledged that they can't expect to dump Super Rugby but remain part of TRC.

I doubt that's the case, but even if it is, who says they wouldn't be able to enter an expanded 7 or 8 nations? If the Celtic unions and Italy want them at club/provincial level they may well want them at test level too.

 

[Derpus]

SARU aren't going to walk away from Super Rugby any time soon for the same reason RA can't: the biggest component of the TV money is the Internationals & Roux (SARU CEO) has already acknowledged that they can't expect to dump Super Rugby but remain part of TRC. That's not to say they won't end up with 4 x Super Rugby & 4 x Pro"x" teams, but you have to wonder when & how they're gunna have eight competitive franchises when they couldn't achieve six not so long ago.

Part of the issue is that we are gauging competitiveness through the lens of NZ Super franchises. Isn't it possible that they are too good for a regular competition? The Hurricanes and Crusaders would each beat most international sides save the top 5 and even then they would be tight matches.

If being competitive means competing with them on a regular basis i think we can skip ahead and introduce the 'Canes to the Rugby Championship.

They should have diluted Kiwi teams rather than condensed the rest.

Edit: Shit^2 is still shit. See Rebels.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It seems to me that the experience of the Cheetahs and Kings in Pro 14 shows that any SA sides participating in that competition will need to be fully professional standard. That would seem to rule out any of the CC franchises just moving across. SA, like Australia, doesn't have the numbers of top quality players to put out more than 5 fully professional sides.

If it transpires that another couple or more SA sides move North, then Super Rugby (and SANZAAR) will collapse.

A trans-Tasman competition would offer little to Australia as it would just perpetuate the current situation where the Aus sides are regularly flogged. If NZ and Aussie rugby split to do their own things, surely the current NZ Super franchises would cease to exist. NZ rugby would most likely revert to the provincial competitions where each team would be bolstered by the intake of the Super players, or those who didn't up stakes and move North themselves.

Rugby in Australia would need to join with WRC to form a competition of some worth, probably based around NRC sides rather than the Super franchises. It is probably incorrect to expect Pacific nations , Fiji, Samoa and Tonga to just come on board then as well, as they would more likely opt to go to the NZ competition. And to be fan friendly, the Aussie comp would need to be predominantly made up of Aussie teams. Too many off shore sides would be too similar to the present Super Rugby competition where sides are away overseas too often though the year.

I have no idea where the various rugby competitions will end up post 2020, but I can't see Super Rugby continuing in anything like its present format.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Yes they can, if they pull out of Super rugby then NZ & Aus will need that test revenue equally if not more. The whole set up is an absolute cluster fuck and needs to be confined to the garbage bin.

I doubt that's the case, but even if it is, who says they wouldn't be able to enter an expanded 7 or 8 nations? If the Celtic unions and Italy want them at club/provincial level they may well want them at test level too.

You blokes must know something Roux doesn't........

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

They should have diluted Kiwi teams rather than condensed the rest.

Edit: Shit^2 is still shit. See Rebels.

Dilute how?

If you mean adding a team that's not going to happen because none of the existing five can be split in two & splitting two into three doesn't work, either (& if we were stupid enough to try then your last comment applies).

If you mean require NZR to select o/s-based players for the AB I can't see that happening either esp now that some of the countries that used to do it (Wales for example) are moving in the opposite direction.

The answer isn't to dilute NZ's takent it's for SA & Aus to catch up & if they can't then, yes, we are all royally & equally fucked.

While I'm at it, re: Trans Tasman (with or without PI involvement) I'm told that NZR have talked informally with broadcasters in Europe, Asia & North America & none of them is willing to put up the money required to make it viable. If that changes so will NZR's position.

 

[sunnyboys]

If the NZR strategy is to wait for oz rugby to catch up - they is nuts!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^^ as far as I can tell NZR's strategy is to still be around when the developing markets are developed enough to provide the revenue to keep them viable. In the meantime they'll take what they can get from wherever they can get it

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

SARU aren't going to walk away from Super Rugby any time soon for the same reason RA can't: the biggest component of the TV money is the Internationals & Roux (SARU CEO) has already acknowledged that they can't expect to dump Super Rugby but remain part of TRC. That's not to say they won't end up with 4 x Super Rugby & 4 x Pro"x" teams, but you have to wonder when & how they're gunna have eight competitive franchises when they couldn't achieve six not so long ago.

They can't achieve 8 competitive franchises. Meaning they'll be fielding a number sub-par teams in either one or both competitions. Which does not fit into the needs of either competition. They'll have to make a choice and I suspect the franchises will make it for them. According to sarugbymag the franchises are certainly looking at the move.

I really do not understand the whole issue surrounding them leaving and not being able to remain part of the RC. Why? Because they wouldn't be competing week in with other SANZAAR nations. They've competed against us in the past prior to Super Rugby existing. Why not again. The Pro 14 is actually looking at altering their schedule to reduce the number of games (going for quality over quantity) which means they could accommodate the Boks playing in the RC in the future.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^^^^^^^ as far as I can tell NZR's strategy is to still be around when the developing markets are developed enough to provide the revenue to keep them viable. In the meantime they'll take what they can get from wherever they can get it

If that's true. Then that's a strategy doomed to fail. That's part of the appeal of the IPRC concept. It doesn't take the wait and see approach. It's looking to get in at the ground floor and develop those markets. Grow with those markets.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^ I'm sure they're being far more proactive than my facetious post implies & are keeping a close eye on what's happening in Asia with WSR/ IPRC & Americas with MLR & LSR. As soon as one or a combination of those demonstrates the potential to become a more attractive option than SANZAAR I think they'll be all over it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^^^^^^ I'm sure they're being far more proactive than my facetious post implies & are keeping a close eye on what's happening in Asia with WSR/ IPRC & Americas with MLR & LSR. As soon as one or a combination of those demonstrates the potential to become a more attractive option than SANZAAR I think they'll be all over it.

The emergence of both MLR and LSR is a major reason why the idea of Super Rugby transforming into a Champion League structure is so attractive to me. The opportunities are emerging that could allow for a radical change in how we compete among ourselves. If South Africa remains then I still believe Super Rugby in its current guise should be disbanded. NZ and SA can still compete with one another in their own structure if the wish but Super Rugby should be completely re-orientated.

Imagine this. We go across to the IPRC. NZ and SA either along with or without the Jaguares compete in another structure. And the MLR and LSR run their seasons.

At the end of each. The top 4 from the NZ/SA comp. Top 3 from the IPRC. Top 2 from MLR and the winner of the LSR enter the Super 10. Two pools of 5. Four games each. Two home and two away. Top 2 from each pool progress to the semi-finals. All up 6 weeks to crown a champion.

It contains the best of all worlds. We get a competition that caters for our time zones while tapping into an emerging marketplace. NZ and SA get to compete with one another. And SANZAAR gets access to the Americas without actually having to set anything up. Everyone wins.

This would also open the door for some really interesting reforms on the international scene. Aligning ourselves in this way the RC could be expanded in much the same way as the European/Asian structures are formatted.

The RC could be the top division with the current 4 plus a fifth. Based off the best performer at the 2019 RWC. But for this exercise we'll say Japan. Below that is another division of 5 teams. Again using the 2019 RWC as guidance. So, we'll say Fiji, USA, Uruguay, possibly Samoa and Canada. Beyond that a third division involving Tonga, Chile, Brazil, Colombia, and either another PI/Americas or even Asian nation.

Set up a promotion/relegation system. With the last place team from each division having a playoff game against the winner of the one below. Again, I think that would be quite compelling.

 

[Derpus]

If you mean adding a team that's not going to happen because none of the existing five can be split in two & splitting two into three doesn't work, either (& if we were stupid enough to try then your last comment applies).

I don't know enough about the social/cultural arrangements of the NZ Super franchises to comment.

If you mean require NZR to select o/s-based players for the AB I can't see that happening either esp now that some of the countries that used to do it (Wales for example) are moving in the opposite direction.

This would have been the best pre-emptive option.

I genuinely think we are all fucked though. People laugh at me in the office for saying i still support the Tahs/ watch rugby. These are largely eastern and northern suburban Sydney-siders. Anecdotal i know, but it's not filling me with confidence.