WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
And there's a real chance that could occur.
Where to for Super Rugby?
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And there's a real chance that could occur.
dru
David Wilson (68)
Guys, you have to put it in perspective. Using Wikipedia as a source, Port Elizabeth has a population of 312,392 and Sydney 5,005,400. The Eastern Cape is also one of the poorest provinces in RSA.
If you scale the PE and Sydney populations, a PE crowd of 2,226 equates to 35,700 attending Moore Park.
"Incredible" starts with the attendances at Aussie games and continues with SARU considering Port Elizabeth a sensible place to base a professional rugby franchise. The economics and supporter base was never going to stack up. It won't get substantially better with the Celts albeit a South Africa wide based TV following could potentially rise depending on the success of the Pro14 comp.
If they are relying on gate taking they are in trouble. Inevitably ongoing cash input could be required from SARU or the Govt.
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Not really. I think SARU have a big-picture view of what they do & don't like about Super Rugby, TRC, etc, and look for opportunities to better their position as these arise, without particularly caring whether it's item 1 or 7 on their wish list. I'd call that pragmatic & playing the long game. That said there's clearly some non-negotiables in there of which "travel equity" is paramount.
KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
I will not be surprised if the Kings are still in Super Rugby next year and the Bulls or Stormers go to the Pro12. Show commitment from the SARU that they are serious about wanting to win the comp.
For marketing purposes the Bulls would be the biggest plus for the pro12, having won Super Rugby and would be a clear sign that Super Rugby is dead come 2020.
I don't think any country wants to abolish the Rugby Championship, even if SA all go North. The Global Rugby calendar will allow it to co-exist with out Super Rugby.
For marketing purposes the Bulls would be the biggest plus for the pro12, having won Super Rugby and would be a clear sign that Super Rugby is dead come 2020.
I don't think any country wants to abolish the Rugby Championship, even if SA all go North. The Global Rugby calendar will allow it to co-exist with out Super Rugby.
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
I think splitting the Lions and Bulls into different leagues would make sense.
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
When does TRC get played if SA teams are playing Sep - May?
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KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
James Pettifer
Jim Clark (26)
However we get to the number where just over 2000 attendance occurs, there is a problem. Your reasoning is completely correct and makes sense but I just really don't understand how this is going to really work. Assuming the full extra 11 million gbp goes to the SA teams, they are really going to struggle to make ends meet.
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
?
TRC is still scheduled for September and October under the current plan. Same time as Pro12
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half
Dick Tooth (41)
I don't think it has anything to do with crowds its about what TV rating they can bring.
Australia & NZ have poor ratings, most of the TV rating in Super Rugby are from SA. The NZ market is not great and subscription TV is low by world standards.
The SA TV rating for Super Rugby as per my reading are in free fall.
If SA can recover its lost Super Rugby rating in Europe and get decent ratings in Europe you do wonder when rather than if they would migrate to European leagues, same time zone as well.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Dru - not at all meaning to nit-pick but the figure above for PE's population did not gel with my recollections. The links I have found put PE's population at c. 1.2m, e.g.:
http://population.city/south-africa/nelson-mandela-bay-port-elizabeth/
It's only of relevance given the topic here of crowd sizes relative to actual city and their surrounds' sizes.
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
I BELIEVE the Pro12 plays through the 6N, I doubt they'd have much against playing through the RC.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Rather concerned with what is proposed for next year. Sunwolves which are very weak super rugby side being put in Oz conference....how will that help us improve!
It is hard to see anything but Oz being the big losers out of Super Rugby revamp and how we come out of it. As we are left with 4 sides with a piss weak Sunwolves side to compete against own conference derbies....whilst the Saffa's potentially not only have 4 teams and more competitive jaguars but also 2 teams cut competing potentially in rather strong pro 12 competition.
Playing more games against a weak Japanese side is not going to help us....and as newspaper article I read today highlighted they will make the Rebels or Force look like title contenders in comparison.
I am not seeing very good strategic planning going into revamp of Super Rugby.....I think SANZAAR is giving the ARU a run for there money as an inept administration.....
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
There has been so much damage done to Super Rugby brand that I think the best thing is to create eventually a new competition and under a new brand.
Super Rugby brand is too badly tarnished to recover I feel.
KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
They have to rebrand anyway. Its the only way the ARU can fet out of this mess they are in.
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Dick Tooth (41)
You could be right
dru
David Wilson (68)
That's not nit picking! I'm just working off Wiki, but from recollection it gelled with the info published from the municipality. I'll re-check it though.
Don't forget the economics though. Eastern Cape is not wealthy.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
IMO, this issue in Australia has got little or nothing to do with the brand 'Super Rugby' per se but everything to do with (a) the clear decline in skills and general quality of play by Australian pro rugby teams and (b) relatedly, the consistent degree to which we are losing at home to ever-improving NZ sides.
The team culling debacle just exacerbates the intrinsic fan negativity that inevitably comes from Australian pro rugby (Super and Wallabies) becoming - as it has - a losers' brigade.
Changing the brand name will mean nothing if the pro product quality - however it's packaged - says mired in ordinariness and obvious decline.
dru
David Wilson (68)
Oh, I'm not (intentionally) being argumentative, it's just the population thing will be polemic - right or wrong ha ha. I'll test it more thoroughly now sometime when I have more time.
Can only agree with your thinking.
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