Where to for Super Rugby?

[RedsHappy]

He's the gift that keeps giving, that bloke. Someone needs to put a gag on the idiot or he'll destroy whatever goodwill there is towards the game in one of its heartlands.

I've said it for a long time and still hold the view: one of the ARU's many strategic blunders (no 679) was the decision to open in Melbourne and not build a Super club in Western Sydney where almost certainly there would have been all of: good, motivated local sponsors, capable local players, a natural latent fan base from (inter alia) the PI communities, middle-affluent fans not keen on travelling to Moore Park, a perversely quite productive rivalry inbuilt there with the toffs of the North Shore and Eastern Suburbs, some local rugby clubs that could have been rebuilt and some schools that would probably have been ready to invest a bit more in school rugby if there was a Super team out West. These elements would have been important risk mitigants as well as positive growth resources.

A Western Sydney Super franchise - if well coached and managed - would have put a justified and overdue red hot poker right up the Waratahs (then) self-satisfied arse and may have done them a world of good having a new competitor just across the local highways and train tracks.

But no, this was not for the ARU. They decided to enter the toughest winter sport base in Australia with virtually no natural root systems already there to fertilise and de-risk it. They then churned through multiple coaches, failed revolving door CEOs, insolent and opportunistic 'prestige' players with zero true loyalty to the Rebels, etc, etc until, once more, they found their unique formula for grinding their own failure nearly into the dirt.

 

[RedsHappy]

Broadly correct, but Davis went a little further than that.

The Waratahs were offered a brand new Parramatta Stadium to use (30,000 capacity), but said it was too small (yes, they really said that).

​

But asked if the smaller Parramatta Stadium could be a home ground once redeveloped, Davis said it might be too small.​

“That’s Parramatta rugby league, that’s Western Sydney Wanderers. I don’t know,” Davis said.​

“Most of our fan support doesn’t really want to go out there, for whatever reason.​

“The renovated stadium at Parramatta, which I think is an appropriate development because it does need upgrading, it will only seat 30,000. So if we have a 35,000 crowd, we can’t play there.”​

Pressed as to whether he was saying a move to Western Sydney “would spell disaster” for the Waratahs, Davis said: “Yep. That would be my expectation. Given where our fans are based, where our loyalty lies, where our training facilities are, where our office facilities are, it would be a bridge too far.”​

......​

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...s/news-story/afa2f1c4a3e0e1f9de89cbd4fcf64728​

An amusing aside re Davis - he went to school in Parramatta for many years.

Clearly he didn't fall in love with the place.

 

[Quick Hands]

An amusing aside re Davis - he went to school in Parramatta for many years.

Clearly he didn't fall in love with the place.

Davis and his cronies only venture into the deep dark west for a few reasons:

1. Kings home games at North Parramatta (sufficient buffer zone from the plebs)

2. GPS Head of the River at the Olympic rowing course (again there exists a sufficient buffer zone from rugby league and WSW fans)

3. Corporate suites at Homebush during Wallaby tests. (suitably separate from the riff raff)

Like the Sun King and his court at Versailles, this serves to completely disconnect them from reality and in their bubble they can still pretend that everything is going so well.

It's not until the peasants are breaking down the front gates at the palace that there attention is diverted.

 

[The torpedo]

Davis and his cronies only venture into the deep dark west for a few reasons:

1. Kings home games at North Parramatta (sufficient buffer zone from the plebs)

2. GPS Head of the River at the Olympic rowing course (again there exists a sufficient buffer zone from rugby league and WSW fans)

3. Corporate suites at Homebush during Wallaby tests. (suitably separate from the riff raff)

Like the Sun King and his court at Versailles, this serves to completely disconnect them from reality and in their bubble they can still pretend that everything is going so well.

It's not until the peasants are breaking down the front gates at the palace that there attention is diverted.

If someone told him the peasants ran out of bread, he'd tell them to eat cake

 

[BLR]

If someone told him the peasants ran out of bread, he'd tell them to eat cake

Sounds like a good bloke, everyone loves cake!

 

[p.Tah]

An amusing aside re Davis - he went to school in Parramatta for many years.

Clearly he didn't fall in love with the place.

I believe they black out the windows on the buses at Kings so they don't have to look at the surrounding suburbs.
They are allowed to be removed briefly as they go past Tara

 

[dru]

I believe they black out the windows on the buses at Kings so they don't have to look at the surrounding suburbs.
They are allowed to be removed briefly as they go past Tara

Haven't we gone far enough with this? It isnt the kids faults that they go to these schools.

 

[I like to watch]

An amusing aside re Davis - he went to school in Parramatta for many years.

Clearly he didn't fall in love with the place.

I thought the funniest bit, was the 35,000 crowd.
There are only 28,000 seats for sale at the SFS.(The balance being members & corporates, that do nothing for the Tahs bottom line)
So 30,000 at Parra trumps a sellout at SFS...

 

[TOCC]

I reckon that there'd be a few people from Sydney generally who would love a team to support other than the Tahs (i.e. they'd back 'em juts because they were not the tahs!) and putting a bit of direct competition in their backyard might actually wake the joint up

Absolutely, in all other codes the the local derbies serve as real drivers of the game.. competition is healthy, it forces organisations to evolve and push for growth. A monopoly creates laziness and an insular eleitist attitude.

 

[dru]

Absolutely, in all other codes the the local derbies serve as real drivers of the game.. competition is healthy, it forces organisations to evolve and push for growth. A monopoly creates laziness and an insular eleitist attitude.

Out of interest, why would this particularly apply to Sydney? And not Brisbane?

 

[Brumby Runner]

I reckon that there'd be a few people from Sydney generally who would love a team to support other than the Tahs (i.e. they'd back 'em juts because they were not the tahs!) and putting a bit of direct competition in their backyard might actually wake the joint up

Just so long as it's not the Force or the Brumbies relocated.

 

[TOCC]

I think it could apply in Brisbane, or at least SEQ in the form of the Titans-Broncos and Suns-Lions in the longer term.

Sydney has a much more apparent geographical subculture within the greater metropolitan area when compared to Brisbane, you have areas like the North Shore, Eastern Suburbs, Penrith, Cronulla ect which are defined demographic enclaves within the wider sydney population. a number of reasons like longer history, larger population, physical separation caused by the harbour and even little things like smaller city councils and shires have all contributed to this IMO. Brisbane has this a bit, and I think as Ipswich matures it will become the Parra equivalent for Brisbane, maybe Logan as well?..

Also, Sydney has the stadium infrastructure to support it, local derbies IMO lose some of their luster if the teams are based out of the same stadiums. An extra team could be based in Sydney, play out of Parra stadium and it immediately has its own geographical representation and an appeal to those who live there.. you place a team in Brisbane, and they're going to be sharing Suncorp with the Reds, it's confusing as to who they would actually represent.

TLDR: Sydney has the stadiums to support it, Brisbane doesn't.

 

[Quick Hands]

I thought the funniest bit, was the 35,000 crowd.
There are only 28,000 seats for sale at the SFS.(The balance being members & corporates, that do nothing for the Tahs bottom line)
So 30,000 at Parra trumps a sellout at SFS.

They'd need a long memory to remember the last time that they sold out the SFS. They'll be lucky to get 14,000 there on Friday. The Reds got 11,000 for the Kings last week, Sydney on a Friday night could be even worse than that.

 

[Ulrich]

Finally found the bloody thing. Here it is.
http://www.supersport.com/rugby/sa-rugby/news/170413/8_pro_teams_not_14_in_SARUs_future

Thanks dru.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Out of interest, why would this particularly apply to Sydney? And not Brisbane?

It might but I have no experience of it and the reds have done better historically through the various incarnations of provincial and then super rugby.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

They'd need a long memory to remember the last time that they sold out the SFS. They'll be lucky to get 14,000 there on Friday. The Reds got 11,000 for the Kings last week, Sydney on a Friday night could be even worse than that.

Particularly before what people seem to think is a long long weekend.

I think it could apply in Brisbane, or at least SEQ in the form of the Titans-Broncos and Suns-Lions in the longer term.

Sydney has a much more apparent geographical subculture within the greater metropolitan area when compared to Brisbane, you have areas like the North Shore, Eastern Suburbs, Penrith, Cronulla ect which are defined demographic enclaves within the wider sydney population. a number of reasons like longer history, larger population, physical separation caused by the harbour and even little things like smaller city councils and shires have all contributed to this IMO. Brisbane has this a bit, and I think as Ipswich matures it will become the Parra equivalent for Brisbane, maybe Logan as well?..

Also, Sydney has the stadium infrastructure to support it, local derbies IMO lose some of their luster if the teams are based out of the same stadiums. An extra team could be based in Sydney, play out of Parra stadium and it immediately has its own geographical representation and an appeal to those who live there.. you place a team in Brisbane, and they're going to be sharing Suncorp with the Reds, it's confusing as to who they would actually represent.

TLDR: Sydney has the stadiums to support it, Brisbane doesn't.

Funny thing is that about 40 years ago I had to go to somewhere south west of Sydney and I drove past a game of rugby being played on a field adjoining the Hume highway at Liverpool. And I thought "I didn't know they played rugby out here" (an observation that probably qualifies me for the ARU board). But my next thought was why isn't there a first grade club out here - I was a typical adolescent with no concern for anyone but myself so I'm not claiming any great insight - what I'm saying is that it was frigging obvious to anyone.......but not the NSWRU or SRU or the ARU.
I googled "LIVERPOOL rugby" and found an article from 2012 which started:
"WHEN the Liverpool Bulls Rugby Union Club folded two years ago after 35 years, their home ground at Dwyer Oval was left vacant during the winter season."
That just about sums up the last 40 years of oz rugby.........

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think there would too but I don't think it would be a massive number.

If you added a second Super Rugby side in Sydney I reckon they'd be moderately reliant on Tahs fans supporting both (which would happen to a reasonable degree I think).

Set it up: I will be no 1 ticket holder, patron, gear steward or parking attendant

 

[Quick Hands]

Set it up: I will be no 1 ticket holder, patron, gear steward or parking attendant

I think that there would be a long line to get on board. Most of the clubs in Sydney would jump ship immediately.

 

[sidelineview]

Great post by RedsHappy #3665

I see the light.

No wonder the Kiwis get the jump on us.

 

[fatprop]

I think Hoiles made an interesting point on a Fox show

A decent Melbourne side will not be really noticed (the Storm have been one of the best NRL teams consistently over the last 10 years and no one care in Melbourne and they are still propped up by Murdoch)

A decent Perth side would conceivably be the second winter sporting code behind AFL

Now which would be better in the medium to long term?