Where to for Super Rugby?

[Joe King]

Something else worth remembering is how this current feel-good vibe within the Australian rugby community has not been dependant upon test rugby or the Wallabies winning.

This goes to show the power and potential of Super Rugby AU. And it's only in its second season!

Test rugby is still the cash-cow, but perhaps we don't need to be absolutely dependent on the Wallabies to grow the game in Australia. Super Rugby AU has proven to be enjoyable and engaging enough to keep the game well and truly alive even if the Wallabies haven't been winning. This is why it is imperative to keep Super Rugby AU.

Imagine having this feel-good vibe within the rugby community every year! A full season TT can't guarantee that.

And I would think, the more engaged people are with the domestic season, the more interested they will be in watching the rep team formed from that domestic comp (i.e. the Wallabies).

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Something else worth remembering is how this current feel-good vibe within the Australian rugby community has not been dependant upon test rugby or the Wallabies winning.

This goes to show the power and potential of Super Rugby AU. And it's only in its second season!

Test rugby is still the cash-cow, but perhaps we don't need to be absolutely dependent on the Wallabies to grow the game in Australia. Super Rugby AU has proven to be enjoyable and engaging enough to keep the game well and truly alive even if the Wallabies haven't been winning. This is why it is imperative to keep Super Rugby AU.

Imagine having this feel-good vibe within the rugby community every year! A full season TT can't guarantee that.

And I would think, the more engaged people are with the domestic season, the more interested they will be in watching the rep team formed from that domestic comp (i.e. the Wallabies).

To me a real Asia Pacific Product and footprint can be established with the launchpad being the TT but only if they operate an open borders policy to drive expansion and growth opportunities. By open borders I mean any player playing for any TT team can still represent their national side. I also would have quotas around number of foreign players teams can have to avoid it going crazy. Why we need this is kiwis have the most playing depth but also the smallest market (3m people) for fan expansion and growth opportunities (footprint wise and commercials) but growth opportunities across Australia and rest of Asia are enormous but don't have the playing talent. I truly believe that when one day they have a TT competition with an open borders policy this is where we will really grow the game and the footprint. Until then I think we will continue to limit the growth potential of having a strong wider footprint across the Asia Pacific.

And hence without this I agree continuing to have and invest in our own domestic competition to at least run alongside a TT product every year is an imperative. Or maybe the answer is we need a domestic competition and a champions league product if don’t have this open borders policy. I think it is imperative we do something with the kiwis as well as have domestic competition as gives us 2 products as opposed to only 1 afl and league can offer which adds to the fan interest in giving best of both worlds. I think the challenge is we have constraints home unions not prepared to put on the table which limits our first best options for competition design. But that is ok we just continue to work with the parties and own home domestic competition focus to get the best outcome.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-super-rugby-au-just-yet-20210511-p57qyk.html

Its getting harder for them to deny the bleeding obvious.

 

[hifflepiff]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-super-rugby-au-just-yet-20210511-p57qyk.html

Its getting harder for them to deny the bleeding obvious.

Thank god for McLennan

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Thank god for McLennan

And per what I outlined as option to keep it - proposal mentioned of flipping things around that instead of 12 week super rugby AU comp and 6 week trans tasman flipping around to 6 week domestic comp and 12 week TT comp. It just makes so much sense to keep it and work it around trans tasman comp. McLennan also gets why the super rugby au local derbies can be successful from Big Bash format. Super rugby AU can exist alongside TT in some form and more important to just make sure keep it in some form.

 

[hifflepiff]

And per what I outlined as option to keep it - proposal mentioned of flipping things around that instead of 12 week super rugby AU comp and 6 week trans tasman flipping around to 6 week domestic comp and 12 week TT comp. It just makes so much sense to keep it and work it around trans tasman comp. McLennan also gets why the super rugby au local derbies can be successful from Big Bash format. Super rugby AU can exist alongside TT in some form and more important to just make sure keep it in some form.

I would prefer to keep the structure as it is at the moment. Domestic rugby needs to be RAs focus, with Trans Tasman as the cherry at the end.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Thank god for McLennan

We are very lucky to have Hamish as his background brings so much value to the table and in this case broadcast background with channel 10 and big bash and understanding what products appeal to fans and broadcast audiences which is key.

 

[barbarian]

So can I rain on the parade for just a second?

Super AU final was great, but I wonder if it's a one-off phenomenon. Firstly because it happened in the one place it ever could happen - Brisbane. The only other place that might be able to produce a similar crowd/atmosphere is Perth, and realistically a GF in Perth is still a few years off if it happens at all.

So I can't help but wonder if the 2021 Super AU final is very much the right place at the right time. Post-COVID Brisbane, good young Reds team, hardened Brumbies, dismal Broncos season, etc etc.

The Big Bash is an interesting comparison, because it's shine has progressively worn off each year of running. And yes there are a bunch of reasons why, and yes the crowds are still decent, but nonetheless the format has gotten a bit tired.

How long can we sustain interest in Super AU with the same five teams running around year after year? Will it be the same when the Reds loft the trophy next year?

I am willing to believe it has legs in the short-medium term, but I'm not sure about it beyond five years. Happy to be proven wrong though!

 

[hifflepiff]

So can I rain on the parade for just a second?

Super AU final was great, but I wonder if it's a one-off phenomenon. Firstly because it happened in the one place it ever could happen - Brisbane. The only other place that might be able to produce a similar crowd/atmosphere is Perth, and realistically a GF in Perth is still a few years off if it happens at all.

So I can't help but wonder if the 2021 Super AU final is very much the right place at the right time. Post-COVID Brisbane, good young Reds team, hardened Brumbies, dismal Broncos season, etc etc.

The Big Bash is an interesting comparison, because it's shine has progressively worn off each year of running. And yes there are a bunch of reasons why, and yes the crowds are still decent, but nonetheless the format has gotten a bit tired.

How long can we sustain interest in Super AU with the same five teams running around year after year? Will it be the same when the Reds loft the trophy next year?

I am willing to believe it has legs in the short-medium term, but I'm not sure about it beyond five years. Happy to be proven wrong though!

Medium-longer term we should be looking to get private investors in to start up teams (ala Twiggy) as the unions don't have the funds to at the moment. The #1 focus should be getting a team up and running in Western Sydney with private backing.

This is the main benefit to having a completely Australian run competition in that we can organise and do what is best for us without having to worry about the NZRU.

I think an eight round competition is ok for now as it doesn't outstay its welcome, and Trans-Tasman comes in at the right time to keep the formula fresh.

 

[Set piece magic]

So can I rain on the parade for just a second?

Super AU final was great, but I wonder if it's a one-off phenomenon. Firstly because it happened in the one place it ever could happen - Brisbane. The only other place that might be able to produce a similar crowd/atmosphere is Perth, and realistically a GF in Perth is still a few years off if it happens at all.

So I can't help but wonder if the 2021 Super AU final is very much the right place at the right time. Post-COVID Brisbane, good young Reds team, hardened Brumbies, dismal Broncos season, etc etc.

The Big Bash is an interesting comparison, because it's shine has progressively worn off each year of running. And yes there are a bunch of reasons why, and yes the crowds are still decent, but nonetheless the format has gotten a bit tired.

How long can we sustain interest in Super AU with the same five teams running around year after year? Will it be the same when the Reds loft the trophy next year?

I am willing to believe it has legs in the short-medium term, but I'm not sure about it beyond five years. Happy to be proven wrong though!

What do people on this forum think will happen if Australia wins just 4 of 25 games in TT, then next year the Waratahs scrape a home final in AU but without playing that well. The comp would be panned as a gee up because of the Aussie teams rep, the final would be in danger of being regarded as a joke. That is the danger of the all AU comp.

Also, I'd like the Aus teams to have a chance of making the big final in TT. We are a much lower chance without our points from the AU comp.

 

[dru]

So can I rain on the parade for just a second?

Considered contra views are always important Barbarian.

The size of the home crowd was a big win for sure. Waratahs can manage a large stadium, and the atmosphere in Melbourne if full would be great too. The real win in numbers was not just the stadium but also the broadcast numbers.

How long can interest be maintained with 5 teams? That is a solid question and part of the reason to why a follow up TT (or similar) is a good thing. All the same if we retain control of our primary competition the number of teams can be resolved by ourselves. I'm all for increasing the number over time and don't mind Fiji joining.

Return to solely an international/TT style Super and we are locked to a max 5 teams for the life of that comp. So while the context changes you can then repeat that question. Can we maintain interest with 5 teams? And perhaps add to the question with: Can we maintain interest with 5 losing teams?

Personally I'd stick with the domestic and work with your 5 year window to resolve expansion, whether that be a TT, more domestic teams or something else.

I'd be happy to see the Reds split into two domestic teams if funding was appropriate and available. And then see them amalgamated as the Reds for the TT. While the Waratahs are in a rut right now, again with appropriate funding, if available, I would think they can target the same.

We would want some consideration as to how talent was made available and clearly the overall quality of the comp would reduce before building up. Given a) NSW current issues; b) we are already in a building phase at Perth; we might want that plan built with time - I'll take your 5 years.

With Brisbane City, Qld Country, Waratahs, SRU Barabarians (?), Drua - we'd have 8 teams then. With an ability to condense talent for the TT.

Now whilst clearly I am dreaming, the real point is that by (yet again) glueing the destiny of our game to decision makers in New Zealand we lose any chance of creatively working our way back to an up-trend and to take control of our own destiny.

In my view it is a mistake. Albeit a mistake with inevitability written all over it.

 

[Dctarget]

I thought next year we had the Drua joining Super Au?

 

[hifflepiff]

What do people on this forum think will happen if Australia wins just 4 of 25 games in TT, then next year the Waratahs scrape a home final in AU but without playing that well. The comp would be panned as a gee up because of the Aussie teams rep, the final would be in danger of being regarded as a joke. That is the danger of the all AU comp.

Also, I'd like the Aus teams to have a chance of making the big final in TT. We are a much lower chance without our points from the AU comp.

If we lose all our games in TT, surely that's an argument towards putting more focus on a domestic only competiton? Why would we want to lock ourselves into a competiton where our teams are going to get shit on and well never get a team in the final?

We have nothing to prove to the Kiwis. The only thing we need to care about is making Union more popular in this country.

Frankly I don't really care how Australian teams do in TT. We've already had a great season with some amazing games and story lines, and we've seen how that's engaged fans around the country. Winning TT would just be a nice to have.

 

[dru]

I thought next year we had the Drua joining Super Au?

Drua have been pre-approved by NZRU. I'm not sure that RA have endorsed the proposal (for the extended TT including Drua) yet.

 

[half]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-super-rugby-au-just-yet-20210511-p57qyk.html

Its getting harder for them to deny the bleeding obvious.

Yer it is.

Its been obvious for a long long long long long time.

Issue has been, that those in control have been loudly and aggressively not only supporter-ed but those with different opinions have been at best been dismissed as foolish out of touch to at worst have been said to have another angel or bias they are pointing out.

But over time more have joined the push to change, and now the big boss has said so, the naysayers are struggling to support there belief that the world will come to an end if we change.

Hand on heart not the other thing, its difficult nay almost impossible to find a long lasting, successful competition anywhere in the world that is not based mostly on a local domestic competition [LDC].

The first part i.e. a local domestic competition, is it to early to say " I told you so" and 20 years ago as well.

The second part of the equation is now we have left the decision to move to a LDC very late, the question of funding, growth, player development all come into focus as we rebuild.

Given we have left it so late, we need private capital. To the same folk who argued against a LDC who say no one will come etc, like before you are wrong. Its even more obvious you are wrong than moving to a LDC.

Establish a US franchise model, use the MLS [its the best] and do a copy and paste job, simply change governing bodies, teams and officials names etc.

Get RA to develop a model and invite at first 10 teams of which I assume the existing five will join.

Like changing to a LDC, it so so so so so so so so so so so so obvious the way forward for RA to be in charge of the structure and creating the framework for the competition to run. But then let the teams run, fund and develop the competition.

 

[Derpus]

Drua have been pre-approved by NZRU. I'm not sure that RA have endorsed the proposal (for the extended TT including Drua) yet.

They have not. From memory they just said they were open to it as an option, which they should be.

I really rate McLellan and the way he's playing it.

 

[Dan54]

Yer it is.




Get RA to develop a model and invite at first 10 teams of which I assume the existing five will join.
n.

Where are you going to find another 5 teams from?

 

[hifflepiff]

Where are you going to find another 5 teams from?

In the same way that most other competitions do, by opening the league up to offers from private investors that pay a franchising fee.

That said I think 5 is slightly too many for the time being. I would look at getting an investor/group of investors for a Western Sydney team (like what Twiggy had lined up a few years ago) + Drua.

That would bring us to 7 teams which would be fine for the time being. We could then open ourselves up to offers for a second QLD team in a few years time.

This is how nearly every other professional sporting league in the country and the world operates.

I don't understand why Rugby administrators keep trying to reinvent the wheel with structures that don't work and have never been shown to work.

 

[sendit]

If we lose all our games in TT, surely that's an argument towards putting more focus on a domestic only competiton? Why would we want to lock ourselves into a competiton where our teams are going to get shit on and well never get a team in the final?

We have nothing to prove to the Kiwis. The only thing we need to care about is making Union more popular in this country.

Frankly I don't really care how Australian teams do in TT. We've already had a great season with some amazing games and story lines, and we've seen how that's engaged fans around the country. Winning TT would just be a nice to have.

I'd rather us play in a proper comp than have us play in the competition equivalent of "everyone who participates gets a award". Frankly I don't really care who won Super AU, we could have played the final straight off the bat, we knew who the two teams in the final where going to be. What we don't know is how we will fare against Kiwi teams, that's the exciting part.

 

[hifflepiff]

I'd rather us play in a proper comp than have us play in the competition equivalent of "everyone who participates gets a award". Frankly I don't really care who won Super AU, we could have played the final straight off the bat, we knew who the two teams in the final where going to be. What we don't know is how we will fare against Kiwi teams, that's the exciting part.

Well that's the great thing about having the TT comp be post-domestic season: we both get what we want. Fans that want domestic derbies + an Australian champion get that in Super AU, fans that want to see how we perform against NZ get to see that in the post-domestic TT comp. Best of both worlds.