We seem not to be adapting quite so well to the new laws than others, so the question seems valid.
I mean, Deans was a 15 who seemingly knew little about attacking backline play.
I don't think there are sacred cows here.
Where did we go wrong? Wallaby Recovery thread.
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I mean, Deans was a 15 who seemingly knew little about attacking backline play.
I don't think there are sacred cows here.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Two games in and I reckon we are pretty close to even to the ABs. It wasn't all that dire.
And if this ex-back had to guess, I reckon the issue is more with hooker than prop.
I reckon it's both. We were packing pretty low and with shoulders below hips a lot, and this made it harder for Moore to hook, a skill he has scarcely had to use for 10 years or more. They were owning us.
I reckon the ABs might not be the benchmark in scrummaging either.
We'll see.
dble bogeyman
Frank Row (1)
Where did we go wrong? a long time ago, Australia has not been competitive for 10 years or so. My firm belief is that the rot started when we started taking players from League, big time. I recall the first one in this time was Wendell Sailor. We dropped Joe Roff to take this guy in.
Of course these guys are talented sportsmen and athletes but the attitude is completely different to Union. They are mostly publicity hounds, many taking drugs and very much individual players who are not interested in the team. They are definitely not 'Union' people
I hate to sound like an old fart but remember before these guys started popping up? We had great players but importantly a great team. the Australian team were so proud to play for Australia and never knew when they were beaten. I watch the team now and many of them don't even know the national anthem.
It's not that long ago when we had John Eales, Timmy Horan, Jason Little, Georgwe Gregan, Phil Kearns, Stephen Larkhan, never mind the previous greats - Nick Farr Jones, David Campese et al. Great Australians and great team players.
We need to go back to basics, develop our players from young, forget short-term fixes - signing a League player, stealing a Fijian, or a Tongan.
Of course these guys are talented sportsmen and athletes but the attitude is completely different to Union. They are mostly publicity hounds, many taking drugs and very much individual players who are not interested in the team. They are definitely not 'Union' people
I hate to sound like an old fart but remember before these guys started popping up? We had great players but importantly a great team. the Australian team were so proud to play for Australia and never knew when they were beaten. I watch the team now and many of them don't even know the national anthem.
It's not that long ago when we had John Eales, Timmy Horan, Jason Little, Georgwe Gregan, Phil Kearns, Stephen Larkhan, never mind the previous greats - Nick Farr Jones, David Campese et al. Great Australians and great team players.
We need to go back to basics, develop our players from young, forget short-term fixes - signing a League player, stealing a Fijian, or a Tongan.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Wow. Just fucking wow.
Sorry mate but this "jolly good old chap there's a good rugby man" shit is why rugby is fucked right now. Politics and private school focus have narrowed our talent channels, along with a complete disrespect for hard work.
Clubs, schools, unions, buying titles instead of investing in their grass roots.
The national body trying to build it from the top down, and ignore some of the fastest growing areas in the country, just to keep their old boys network happy.
And make no mistake, that team we had in the 98-2001 period were once in a generation players who freakishly occurred with a great coach/manager in Rod Macqueen. Don't let's pretend club rugby was responsible solely for that.
Australia was ahead of the game in rugby and cricket during the start of the professional era, but everyone caught us because we sat on our laurels rather than working twice as hard to stay ahead.
Sorry mate but this "jolly good old chap there's a good rugby man" shit is why rugby is fucked right now. Politics and private school focus have narrowed our talent channels, along with a complete disrespect for hard work.
Clubs, schools, unions, buying titles instead of investing in their grass roots.
The national body trying to build it from the top down, and ignore some of the fastest growing areas in the country, just to keep their old boys network happy.
And make no mistake, that team we had in the 98-2001 period were once in a generation players who freakishly occurred with a great coach/manager in Rod Macqueen. Don't let's pretend club rugby was responsible solely for that.
Australia was ahead of the game in rugby and cricket during the start of the professional era, but everyone caught us because we sat on our laurels rather than working twice as hard to stay ahead.
Rassie
Trevor Allan (34)
Barbarian when you are finished taking things out of context you will note firstly he still work for the IRB. IRB got restructured but influence is still there and politics is pretty much happening when it comes to the IRB. You would have notcied that with the Horwill stamping incident.
Secondly a Australian was sent off in a BC match when a SA official were axed. So the the typical SA supporter thing you are trying to pin on me is a bit off.
Thirdly this has nothing to do with the WC or Lawrence or anything. This has to do with officials that is not going to dish out Cards in BC matches that will influence the result or may influence it cause they too scared of getting axed afterwards due to the influence by respective unions.
Hence I said in another thread get Steve Walsh to officiate the games as he is to confused where his alliance lies. But using SA referees you can pretty much start complaining now for next year.
The examples I used in those pictures are the clear and obvious that had a effect on the game which was tries were scored from them. The tacklers of NZ created a camp for Genia cutting of his one side and you can go and watch that first test again.
If Genia was nullified the legal way no problem but a tackler laying strategically on his right foot at the area of the game he likes to box kicks is not a accident. Just like making Mogg kick off his right foot is not and just like at kick returns the big forwards stand still throw hands up in the air for the back three to aim at. NZ are such a good team and really shouldn't need proffesional fouls like that. Imagine how they would feel if a players goes and stand right by their 10 everytime and not getting pinged by the referees. Their attack would shut down cause they value him more. NFL started with illegal tafctics and later on it became with injuring key players. Rugby is heading that way.
Richie doing it one could still call it whining or sour grapes but when 6 or 7 guys are allowed to run around and do what they want at the ruck situation its becoming a circus. Even conceding 6 penalties if its for the same offense its repeated. 6 times in fact. where are the yellows.
If you consider the AB motto of First Prize Bust the line 2nd Prize Get momentum Third Prize of squeeze a penalty and apply it to defense what will it be? Defend the line, stop momentum and give away a penalty?
As for Latua. Yes he got injured but when? After rolling nicely to block Genia off look at the boot of the Aussie player? Did he get another knock? So he knew exactly which direction he was rolling. Rolling to the left would have been easier for him but that would be away from the Aussie ball. So he chose the harder right.
Secondly a Australian was sent off in a BC match when a SA official were axed. So the the typical SA supporter thing you are trying to pin on me is a bit off.
Thirdly this has nothing to do with the WC or Lawrence or anything. This has to do with officials that is not going to dish out Cards in BC matches that will influence the result or may influence it cause they too scared of getting axed afterwards due to the influence by respective unions.
Hence I said in another thread get Steve Walsh to officiate the games as he is to confused where his alliance lies. But using SA referees you can pretty much start complaining now for next year.
The examples I used in those pictures are the clear and obvious that had a effect on the game which was tries were scored from them. The tacklers of NZ created a camp for Genia cutting of his one side and you can go and watch that first test again.
If Genia was nullified the legal way no problem but a tackler laying strategically on his right foot at the area of the game he likes to box kicks is not a accident. Just like making Mogg kick off his right foot is not and just like at kick returns the big forwards stand still throw hands up in the air for the back three to aim at. NZ are such a good team and really shouldn't need proffesional fouls like that. Imagine how they would feel if a players goes and stand right by their 10 everytime and not getting pinged by the referees. Their attack would shut down cause they value him more. NFL started with illegal tafctics and later on it became with injuring key players. Rugby is heading that way.
Richie doing it one could still call it whining or sour grapes but when 6 or 7 guys are allowed to run around and do what they want at the ruck situation its becoming a circus. Even conceding 6 penalties if its for the same offense its repeated. 6 times in fact. where are the yellows.
If you consider the AB motto of First Prize Bust the line 2nd Prize Get momentum Third Prize of squeeze a penalty and apply it to defense what will it be? Defend the line, stop momentum and give away a penalty?
As for Latua. Yes he got injured but when? After rolling nicely to block Genia off look at the boot of the Aussie player? Did he get another knock? So he knew exactly which direction he was rolling. Rolling to the left would have been easier for him but that would be away from the Aussie ball. So he chose the harder right.
Dumbledore
Dick Tooth (41)
What the fuck? Just need a few more white chaps and we'll be right? What Fijian or Tongan have we stolen... ever? Christ, I'd be down for some stealing if we could get another Noriega out of it.
As for the rest of your post... We're actually really pretty competitive as a rugby team. The last few years we've been number two or three in the world, pretty much only ever behind a record breaking All Black team. We've made the Saffas our bitches along the way, and save for some stupid losses against the likes of Samoa and Scotland have been pretty decent against just about everyone.
We don't need more good old fashion rugger chaps, we need brilliant athletes who can perform the fundamnetals of rugby correctly as well as playing to a successful gameplan. We need to pick the right players in the right positions. Even then it's absolutely no guarantee that we'll suddenly become a world beating power again. That just isn't how sport works sometimes. The entitlement complex some people have is unreal.
boyo
Mark Ella (57)
One aspect the Wallabies desperately need to improve is how we manage the referee and also tactical penalties.
In both tests, Horwill was ineffective in his discussions with the referee. In both tests he made attempts to talk to the referee about the All Blacks infringements and both times he was rebuffed. In the second test it was particularly telling that his first statement to Peyper included something about them using the same tactics last week which of course Peyper correctly cited as being irrelevant.
So what is it that Horwill isn't doing right? It seems to me that the first discussion with the referee regarding these sort of issues is of critical importance. Get that right and the referee will hopefully be sympathetic and looking for repeat infringements from the opposition. Put the referee offside and it would seem more likely that you'd have a better chance of the opposition getting yellow carded if you'd said nothing.
It seems to me that Horwill struggles to calm himself down to talk to the referee and it instead comes across as out of breath pleading/whinging which only worsens our situation. I feel like Horwill needs to take a second and compose himself before he speaks to the referee. I don't think massive changes are required but he just has to get it right the first time otherwise it becomes pointless.
Penalties in the red zone have been a crucial aspect of both tests and have cost the Wallabies massively. Almost every time we made a break the All Blacks seemed happy to give away a penalty and three points and kill the play. Without the potential for follow up yellow cards, this worked heavily against the Wallabies.
At the other end of the field, I believe the Wallabies gave away three of four tries across the two tests whilst the ABs had a penalty advantage. This to me is the crucial difference that we need to change. When the ABs infringed they made sure that it killed the play and the Wallabies attack was over. When we did it, we're still letting their attack continue and in most cases they scored yet still had the back up option of three points. It seems to me that if we're going to give away penalties when we're scrambling in defence, we need to make sure we kill the play.
The All Blacks seem to do this well without giving away an instant yellow card because whilst the infringement is a bit cynical, once that one player gets in the way of the ball, other players ruck over the top legally and make it impossible for the ball to come out.
In both tests, Horwill was ineffective in his discussions with the referee. In both tests he made attempts to talk to the referee about the All Blacks infringements and both times he was rebuffed. In the second test it was particularly telling that his first statement to Peyper included something about them using the same tactics last week which of course Peyper correctly cited as being irrelevant.
So what is it that Horwill isn't doing right? It seems to me that the first discussion with the referee regarding these sort of issues is of critical importance. Get that right and the referee will hopefully be sympathetic and looking for repeat infringements from the opposition. Put the referee offside and it would seem more likely that you'd have a better chance of the opposition getting yellow carded if you'd said nothing.
It seems to me that Horwill struggles to calm himself down to talk to the referee and it instead comes across as out of breath pleading/whinging which only worsens our situation. I feel like Horwill needs to take a second and compose himself before he speaks to the referee. I don't think massive changes are required but he just has to get it right the first time otherwise it becomes pointless.
Penalties in the red zone have been a crucial aspect of both tests and have cost the Wallabies massively. Almost every time we made a break the All Blacks seemed happy to give away a penalty and three points and kill the play. Without the potential for follow up yellow cards, this worked heavily against the Wallabies.
At the other end of the field, I believe the Wallabies gave away three of four tries across the two tests whilst the ABs had a penalty advantage. This to me is the crucial difference that we need to change. When the ABs infringed they made sure that it killed the play and the Wallabies attack was over. When we did it, we're still letting their attack continue and in most cases they scored yet still had the back up option of three points. It seems to me that if we're going to give away penalties when we're scrambling in defence, we need to make sure we kill the play.
The All Blacks seem to do this well without giving away an instant yellow card because whilst the infringement is a bit cynical, once that one player gets in the way of the ball, other players ruck over the top legally and make it impossible for the ball to come out.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Injured or not, he was still interfering with the clearance from the ruck and that was a major contributing factor in the charge down and try.
What concerns me as much about these pictures is the lack of Wallabies forwards in and around the ruck area. Easy to see why the box kicks are often charged down.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
BH, since we've discussed this previously, you know I agree. It's what I was getting at regarding Horwill earlier.
It's really noticeable when he goes to talk to the ref and seems very inarticulate. Compare this to McCaw - or Sam Warburton - and the difference is striking. Those guys are measured, friendly, inquiring, calm. Perhaps Horwill just needs to learn a couple of techniques to calm himself before he has a word.
At least, he's still better than Elsom, who always looked like he was about to belt the ref.
It's really noticeable when he goes to talk to the ref and seems very inarticulate. Compare this to McCaw - or Sam Warburton - and the difference is striking. Those guys are measured, friendly, inquiring, calm. Perhaps Horwill just needs to learn a couple of techniques to calm himself before he has a word.
At least, he's still better than Elsom, who always looked like he was about to belt the ref.
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
No - the major contributing factor was actually Lilo's kick.
Blaming an injured player for a stupid play is really starting to scrape the bottom of the barrell.
gel
Ken Catchpole (46)
Rob Simmons was penalised for not clearing a ruck area due to him incurring an injury.
*edit* earlier this season in the Super Rugby I will think you find he was also knocked out senseless and was penalised for not clearing a ruck.
In conclusion, I am not sure specifically what the proper interpretation is supposed to be, but from my experiences it would appear that it doesn't actually matter if the player as injured or not - they shouldn't be there.
I don't think a player should be penalised for being injured.
That was Rassie.
I'm not sure many others were blaming Luatua for that.
I think the question has to be asked why Slipper didn't knock himself out in a more inconvenient location for the All Blacks.
If he was really a team player he'd have made sure he got knocked out right on top of the ball.
If he was really a team player he'd have made sure he got knocked out right on top of the ball.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
The correct ruling, I think, is to stop play and play a scrum.
http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?highlight=danger&law=6.A.7
It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
Memo to all captains.
Speak to the ref when your team gets a penalty and take the ball with you;
- You will have his undivided attention as nothing can else happen in the game if you're holding the ball talking to him.
- You will not initially be perceived as negative or a whinger because you have just received the penalty.
- Speak slowly and calmly, with a non threatening posture
- If trying to make a point, don't make general claims, offer specific and recent examples.
- Reinforce something positive you're team's doing as you end the conversation such as "are you happy with our discipline so far?"
- Say "thanks for your feedback Sir"
Speak to the ref when your team gets a penalty and take the ball with you;
- You will have his undivided attention as nothing can else happen in the game if you're holding the ball talking to him.
- You will not initially be perceived as negative or a whinger because you have just received the penalty.
- Speak slowly and calmly, with a non threatening posture
- If trying to make a point, don't make general claims, offer specific and recent examples.
- Reinforce something positive you're team's doing as you end the conversation such as "are you happy with our discipline so far?"
- Say "thanks for your feedback Sir"
- Status