Where did we go wrong? Wallaby Recovery thread.

[lewisr]

In light of the obliteration that has just occurred, I thought itd be a good idea to have a chat about what we need to do in terms of gameplay/ selections etc. etc.

Going to have my say:

1) Forwards still lacking dominance at the ruck. Thought they were fine at the scrum and were ok in open play but the ABs were putting half as many blokes in the ruck and getting better results.

2) Just gonna say it, I thought Quade made the backs look far more dangerous. He took the ball right to the line and kept them guessing. Stupid kick off but I think its fair to say that that's what you get when you're throwing everything at the game 20 or so points down. In no way am I saying that To'omua had a bad game - he was solid and did exactly what we expected of him. But the backs did not strike me as challenging the AB defence apart from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s breaks for the first part of the game. For me I'd give Cooper a shot. (debate away!)

3) The kicking game from Mogg wasn't as good as I thought it'd be. He just didn't make as many metres as he usually does but maybe thats a result of those screw ups in the Super Rugby final.

4) Positive - Don't think the scoreline reflected our effort. We were quite competitive and stupid defensive reads really gave away soft tries.

- Hooper was f'ing brilliant.

- O'Connor looking at home on the wing

5) Gameplan - No inside balls!?!? Not really the attacking brilliance we thought we'd see??

6) Izzy ??? WHere was he?

Contribute away!

 

[tigerland12]

Player Wise

The Great: Michael Hooper
The Good: Rob Simmons, Adam Ashley-Cooper
The OK: James Slipper, Liam Gill, Quade Cooper, James Horwill
The "Wait they were playing?": Israel Folau
The Jekyll & Hyde: James O'Connor, Tevita Kuridrani
The Poor: Will Genia, Ben Alexander, Ben Mowen, Matt To'omua, Hugh McMenimen, Stephen Moore
The Shocking: Jesse Mogg

Watching the Wallabies hurts my head

 

[Dumbledore]

Written elsewhere, but my first thoughts

Mogg was genuinely awful. Horribly exposed. That's him done for a good long while.

Need more go-forward in the forwards. I'd start Sio, get Fardy in for MMM too. Moore looks flat to me. Although the idea of starting Fainga'a leaves me cold. I'm still not sure what the point of Simmons is - he's good at the lineout and restarts but apart from that... Seriously. What's the point of him? He's invisible, and not in the good way.

To'omua had a fine debut. Was safe at least. Certainly can build from it. We never really looked like scoring though. JOC (James O'Connor) seriously needs to work on his defensive positioning, but he, with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Hooper, was just about the only player who offered anything with ball in hand.

The All Blacks are really, really, fucking good.

 

[Slim 293]

To sum up.........

Forwards not performing as a unit........

Slow service from genia.........

Lateral play from the backline.........

No support play........

Poor defensive positioning from JOC (James O'Connor)..........

Folau completely missing...........

 

[gel]

QC (Quade Cooper) needs to either be in the run on team or out of the 23 all together. He is at his best when he can ease into a game, not when he feels he needs to come in and do miracles.

I think To'omua played OK for a first game, but needed to run straight a bit more and pass a little closer to the defensive line - he was probably a bit timid.

The forward pack, for me, is the real issue. It just has no ability to shift bodies. Without that, there is no hope for any backline to function. I swear the only response from a single digit in gold when the opposition is offside or bending the rules at a ruck is to put their arms up in the air, boy band style, and say "sir!". Fly in and clean out FFS!!!!!!!!

 

[Slim 293]

We're also still pretty average from restarts..........

 

[Ash]

Written elsewhere, but my first thoughts

Mogg was genuinely awful. Horribly exposed. That's him done for a good long while.

Need more go-forward in the forwards. I'd start Sio, get Fardy in for MMM too. Moore looks flat to me. Although the idea of starting Fainga'a leaves me cold. I'm still not sure what the point of Simmons is - he's good at the lineout and restarts but apart from that. Seriously. What's the point of him? He's invisible, and not in the good way.

To'omua had a fine debut. Was safe at least. Certainly can build from it. We never really looked like scoring though. JOC (James O'Connor) seriously needs to work on his defensive positioning, but he, with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Hooper, was just about the only player who offered anything with ball in hand.

The All Blacks are really, really, fucking good.

Simmons seems to suffer from reputation more than anything here. I wondered about his selection, but for a lineout lock he did a fine job around the park. His two blemishes were the intercept pass and penalty to give away three points.

No tackling stats yet, but from early stats Simmons had 8 runs for 42m, 11 rucks & mauls (2nd only to Horwill in the Aus forwards), 2 lineout steals.

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match22218.html

Sometimes I wonder if people don't watch what certain players do in a game, and instead fall back to preconceived notions.

 

[ACT Crusader]

I just think it comes down to poor coaching [grabs coat]



I really liked the physicality of the OZ forwards in the 1st half, but they lacked cohesion to work as a unit as Slim pointed out.

As a result I never got that feeling that even though OZ were ticking over the scoreboard that they were actually building sustained pressure. There were plays that put the ABs on the back foot and had us scrambling, but it seemed they were lacking that finishing class and/or killer instinct.

 

[Train Without a Station]

JOC (James O'Connor) and MMM out of the starting team. Go from there. Too many tries down JOC (James O'Connor)'s wing. You wouldn't even know "Madness" was on there.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

As a result I never got that feeling that even though OZ were ticking over the scoreboard that they were actually building sustained pressure. There were plays that put the ABs on the back foot and had us scrambling, but it seemed they were lacking that finishing class and/or killer instinct.

That's what I said to the mate I was watching with. The final polish and execution was what mostly did us in. You can't do that against a team with the experience of the AB's. I firmly believe we will get better though.

 

[Dumbledore]

Ash I know what you're saying, and the stats might completely disagree with my impression, but he just doesn't seem to have any impact on a game. He doesn't make things happen. And not in an x-factor way either, he just never seems to be able to take the game by the scruff of the neck and make big plays when it counts. He's just meh.

 

[tigerland12]

Simmons seems to suffer from reputation more than anything here. I wondered about his selection, but for a lineout lock he did a fine job around the park. His two blemishes were the intercept pass and penalty to give away three points.

No tackling stats yet, but from early stats Simmons had 8 runs for 42m, 11 rucks & mauls (2nd only to Horwill in the Aus forwards), 2 lineout steals.

http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match22218.html

Sometimes I wonder if people don't watch what certain players do in a game, and instead fall back to preconceived notions.

THIS!
Agree completely. I thought Simmons had a very solid game. Not outstanding by any means but he did more than Douglas did the entire Lions series.

 

[hughbert]

I think To'omua played OK for a first game, but needed to run straight a bit more and pass a little closer to the defensive line - he was probably a bit timid.

What's the background of this obsession people have with the 10 "taking the ball to the line"?

I thought To'omua played a fine game and principally it was because he didn't hold onto it for any longer that he had to.

I'd quite like them to persevere with this reasonably simple approach of giving the centres some space and time to do their thing, rather than having the 10 hang on to it for eternity a la leaguie halfbacks.

 

[Train Without a Station]

What's the background of this obsession people have with the 10 "taking the ball to the line"?

Because just shovelling does not commit a defender, defender can just drift on to the next defender preventing any overlap.

 

[hughbert]

Because just shovelling does not commit a defender, defender can just drift on to the next defender preventing any overlap.

So should the halfback be running from every ruck to commit a defender also?

There's a reason that halfbacks, 10s and centres are usually not hot-swappable.

 

[dangerousdave]

I think To'omua played OK for a first game, but needed to run straight a bit more and pass a little closer to the defensive line - he was probably a bit timid.

I was sitting behind the goal line and all I saw was sideways running and shoveling. That was also what lead to the last AB try...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Train Without a Station]

No, because the half back doesn't have the space to do it without getting tackled behind the gain line.

 

[Bullrush]

What's the background of this obsession people have with the 10 "taking the ball to the line"?

I thought To'omua played a fine game and principally it was because he didn't hold onto it for any longer that he had to.

I'd quite like them to persevere with this reasonably simple approach of giving the centres some space and time to do their thing, rather than having the 10 hang on to it for eternity a la leaguie halfbacks.

A 10 who does more than just pass the ball out to the centres, who asks questions of the defence, is what gives them more space and time.

 

[Scotty]

The team looked better when JOC (James O'Connor) went to full back and played in the 13 position in attack with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) running off him. I know this is stupid but despite having a great few runs AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has got serious deficiencies in setting up any other player. I wouldn't mind seeing him dropped at some stage for the crime of ball hog. There is no 'I' in team, Adam.

Where did we go wrong?

1. Not effective at the breakdown = no fast ball = lack of penetration

2. Simple defensive errors = easy points given away (4 tries by my count)

Those were the two main reasons for the loss. How do they get fixed?

1. I would give Fardy a run in the starting team for MMM. MMM can come on at lock or 6 in the second half. Bring Sio on a lot earlier as well. But primarily just focus on accuracy and aggression at the breakdown.

2. Move JOC (James O'Connor) to fullback and bring the Honey Badger onto the wing.

 

[lewisr]

So should the halfback be running from every ruck to commit a defender also?

There's a reason that halfbacks, 10s and centres are usually not hot-swappable.

It doesn't have to happen all the time... It just has to happen every now and then to keep the defense second guessing. What we saw tonight was the same thing from Matt everytime which was "catch pass". Thats fine, not saying its bad because its really what a 10 is meant to do. BUT, if you want to create more breaks surely you admit that they have to pose a potential threat because thats what opens up the outside for the centres and wingers. We didn't have any inside runners either so it kept it very one dimensional.