DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
I really think this is an unfair summary of his attacking play. It is his most effective weapon, and it's pretty damn effective.
What to do with JOC (James O'Connor)?
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I really think this is an unfair summary of his attacking play. It is his most effective weapon, and it's pretty damn effective.
Athilnaur
Arch Winning (36)
Cant see O'Connor missing out myself, we need to give him every opportunity to get his kicking stable. Frustrating to see Mitchell miss a shot at returning to form but kicking is critical and its not gonna be Digby who comes off.
Mitchell, Barnes are injury cover, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Ant is tougher, reckon Deans will keep both in mix but I am happy with either.
Assuming the wheels don't fall off and maybe even if they do, reserves will all get a decent run tho vs Italy, Ireland with more change for other two games.
If O'Connor plays poorly however...
Mitchell, Barnes are injury cover, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Ant is tougher, reckon Deans will keep both in mix but I am happy with either.
Assuming the wheels don't fall off and maybe even if they do, reserves will all get a decent run tho vs Italy, Ireland with more change for other two games.
If O'Connor plays poorly however...
Swarley
Bob Loudon (25)
I really don't understand the Ant Fainga'a love-fest. It's pretty clear people favour Fainga'a based on his supposedly superior defensive efforts, but I'm beginning to wonder how much of that is due to the attention he received playing outside Quade at the Reds.
The numbers from last Saturday's Bledisloe suggest that McCabe is the superior defender, with a higher tackle rate and a higher tackle success rate. Both players made the full 80, in which time McCabe made 19 tackles to Fainga'a's 9 (with 100% success compared to Ant's 82%). This is pretty consistent to the Super Rugby season, in which McCabe finished with 93% tackle completion whereas Fainga'a sat at 84%.
I will concede that Fainga'a is very involved when it comes to the breakdown, e.g.: hitting 29 rucks against the AB's. However, when you consider McCabe's substantially higher attacking stats (meters gained, carries, try assists, tries, offloads, line-breaks, line-break assists) IMO it's pretty clear he's the better player.
The numbers from last Saturday's Bledisloe suggest that McCabe is the superior defender, with a higher tackle rate and a higher tackle success rate. Both players made the full 80, in which time McCabe made 19 tackles to Fainga'a's 9 (with 100% success compared to Ant's 82%). This is pretty consistent to the Super Rugby season, in which McCabe finished with 93% tackle completion whereas Fainga'a sat at 84%.
I will concede that Fainga'a is very involved when it comes to the breakdown, e.g.: hitting 29 rucks against the AB's. However, when you consider McCabe's substantially higher attacking stats (meters gained, carries, try assists, tries, offloads, line-breaks, line-break assists) IMO it's pretty clear he's the better player.
Nusadan
Chilla Wilson (44)
Agree with Swarley above, just because Ant made a couple of spectacular try saving tackles by rushing up and not giving the ball carrier time to pass the ball just after receiving it doesn't mean that McCabe doesn't make such try saving efforts, he just simply does them on the quiet and more often.
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
You can't rely on those statistics to make the judgement that McCabe is the better defender and that we are over-rating Fainga'a. From my memory, the All Blacks directed alot of attention down that first channel, especially in the second half. Fainga'a was defending wider and was not needed to come in as much as McCabe had to.
Also making the statement that McCabe is a better player due to his attacking stats is also up for arguement. Fainga'a isn't used in that manner, McCabe's primary function is to run the ball, whilst Ant is a defender. This was seen at the Reds, Fainga'a was rarley used as an attacking option, this isn't because he is a shit attacker, but it's because there was better ball running options, which is also seen in the Wallabies.
minorbird
Tom Lawton (22)
Shouldn't the fact that McCabe had a higher tackle completion percentage in spite of the heavier flow of traffic say something about their respective tackling abilities?
Swarley
Bob Loudon (25)
That's why I used stats from the Super Rugby season. A plethora of different games with different situations that paint a pretty accurate picture of both Fainga'a and McCabe's playing abilities. In both the Test match and the S15 matches McCabe's numbers outshine Fainga'a's.
I understand that McCabe is more of a ball running option, but surely the fact that he fulfils this role effectively whilst still making more tackles (and with a better success rate) would indicate that he's better than Fainga'a.
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
I'm not doubting your analysis between the two, but I don't think it shows that McCabe is a superior player to Fainga'a.
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
So what does Angaa offer that's different to this? Or McCabe?
Brumbies Guy
John Solomon (38)
Fainga'a and McCabe are playing completely different roles. McCabe is being used as the traditional style barge n defend inside centre, and Fainga'a is being used more as a wide openside flanker. Just look at Fainga'a's ruck involvements (almost equal with Elsom & co) to see what he is doing elsewhere while the statistics are showing that McCabe is making the more tackles. And it's working well.
They form a rock solid midfield and seem to combine good for a new partnership. They compliment Cooper, Beale & JOC (James O'Connor) well.
They form a rock solid midfield and seem to combine good for a new partnership. They compliment Cooper, Beale & JOC (James O'Connor) well.
The fact that everyone is ignoring the fact that it's actually harder to defend at outside centre is a bit confusing. Add that to the fact that Fainga'a replaced AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) not McCabe and I get really confused. Fainga'a was clearly better at 13 than AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been all year so what's the problem?
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
I was just thinking that, outside center is the hardest position to defend from.
And shouldn't we be comparing Fainga'a and Ashley-Cooper?
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
Pfft, try fullback.
Cutter
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
What makes it difficult is that the fullback usually slots into the line inside or outside the opposition 13. You have to make more decisions about who to take.
I'm astounded by the logic of the Fainga'a supporters saying that just because none of his teams use him in attack it doesn't mean he isn't an absolute bloody special with the ball in his hands.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
With a centre pairing of McCabe and Ant and the discussion over who is a better defender, who does the basics right, I think the main thing to be grateful for is quads ability to cut them both out so someone the opposition defense fears can get the ball.
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
I am glad the discussion is about who is a better defender, not who is a bad defender. We are lucky to be choosing who is the best of a great bunch and not discussing how to fill in a weak spot (he is already defending atfullback)
James Buchanan
Trevor Allan (34)
I thought he was at wing this year.
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