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What is wrong with the Tahs

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It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
For too many years now, the Waratahs have been fixated on translating the Sydney Uni Club game into Super Rugby.......it doesn't work guys so stop doing it.
Players like Halangahu can only play behind a bully boy pack on a flat track. Mumm rhymes with dumb for a reason and Waugh held the team back to his pace for far too long.

Too many Super teams with large and aggressive packs can "Out Sydney Uni" the Waratahs (i.e. NZ & Sth African sides), while other teams with athletic, mobile forward packs can run them off the park (e.g. Brumbies).
Success will only come when the Waratahs make a deliberate decision on the style they wish to play and have this dominate every piece of their DNA as an organisation such as playing style, recruitment, culture, strength and conditioning etc
This requires leadership at the top of the organisation.
Are the people there today capable of doing this???"
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
For too many years now, the Waratahs have been fixated on translating the Sydney Uni Club game into Super Rugby.......it doesn't work guys so stop doing it.
Players like Halangahu can only play behind a bully boy pack on a flat track. Mumm rhymes with dumb for a reason and Waugh held the team back to his pace for far too long.
Too many Super teams with large and aggressive packs can "Out Sydney Uni" the Waratahs (i.e. NZ & Sth African sides), while other teams with athletic, mobile forward packs can run them off the park (e.g. Brumbies).
Success will only come when the Waratahs make a deliberate decision on the style they wish to play and have this dominate every piece of their DNA as an organisation such as playing style, recruitment, culture, strength and conditioning etc
This requires leadership at the top of the organisation.
Are the people there today capable of doing this???"


Great Post. The first time for a long time I have seen a post which actually rationally proposes a reason for the long term under performance of a very very good pack.

Also take note of the difference in the play of Kurtley Beale at 10 for the Rebels and when he played at 10 for the Tahs. He chipped ounce tonight and it was not only the right option but was the real attacking option. Too many times with the Tahs he had to chip or did chip because there were no other attacking options.
 

Badger

Bill McLean (32)
The only way I can see anything changing at the Tahs is for the team and administration to go through what the Reds or Brumbies have experienced and have a broom sweep through the place. I can't see this happening soon as there are weaker teams in the Aust conference which will help Tahs finish mid table.

I agree with other GAGRs who have commented on how the focus is on the positives in the post match interviews. Sure you can get away with it early in the season, but it rings hollow by the middle of the season and the team's finals chances have all but gone.

I also wonder about the judgement of the coaching team when they appoint a player captain who is recovering from injury with no firm date to return. Then in his place, they appoint a player as captain who is not in the leadership group and wouldn't make the starting line up if not for injuries to others.

More recently, as Drew Mitchell hasn't played in about six months, I can't imagine he will be starting or getting a lot of time off the bench during the South African sojourn. So wouldn't it be better for him to get some game time locally and if the comeback is successful, have him on the bench for the Canes game on June 2?

Lots of baffling decisions coming out of the Tahs for mine.
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I do honestly believe it's the Sydney superiority complex.
Then I honestly believe you're an idiot.

The Tahs have a lot of problems but to put them down to location is wrong. Even if there was a Sydney superiority complex, do you honestly believe they wouldn't have had it beaten out of them through years of repeated failure?
 

louie

Desmond Connor (43)
Then I honestly believe you're an idiot.

The Tahs have a lot of problems but to put them down to location is wrong. Even if there was a Sydney superiority complex, do you honestly believe they wouldn't have had it beaten out of them through years of repeated failure?

The tahs don't think they've failed. Their so arrogant that they think making the finals a few times and winnings game without been entertaining is success. The point is that they have no consciousness about how crap people think they are.
 

Brumbieman

Dick Tooth (41)
Paka - 6 games?
Rocky - 6 games
Mitchell - Season
Lachie - season
Foley - 4 games
berrick - 3 games
vickerman - season
alcock - 3 games
mccutchen-season
horne - 2 games (suspension)
TPN - 1 game
Palu - 3 games

pretty fair for a 30 man squad to have had 12 players injured or suspended, but hey, don't let that get in the way of a good lynching.

having test players is fantastic, as it means that you have a player that has achieved to a high level and brings experience and knowledge to the camp. But having a wallaby doesn't mean much in a team sport if those outside are constantly changing and not adapting fast enough to form combinations and game plans that allow for cohesive play. (ask the rebels)



Ohhhh wibble.

Turner and Mitchell are your only serious losses. 80% of the other injured players are not starting 15. You've suffered about as many injuries as the Brumbies this year, and thats bugger all. You may have lost a few of your backups, and semi-starting players, but you still have a forward pack including an all Wallaby front row, Palu, Mumm, plus Barnes, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Kingston.

The Tahs are a relentless talent vaccum, year in year out they look the goods and have the strongest team on paper (even when the Brumbies were labelled the 'Real Madrid' of Aussie rugby, for scoring one player who was not snapped up by any other team, and still had less Wallabies than the Tahs), yet fail to deliver.

The less Tahs in the Wallabies, the better, and history 100% backs my argument.
 

Brumbieman

Dick Tooth (41)
The only way I can see anything changing at the Tahs is for the team and administration to go through what the Reds or Brumbies have experienced and have a broom sweep through the place. I can't see this happening soon as there are weaker teams in the Aust conference which will help Tahs finish mid table.

I agree with other GAGRs who have commented on how the focus is on the positives in the post match interviews. Sure you can get away with it early in the season, but it rings hollow by the middle of the season and the team's finals chances have all but gone.

I also wonder about the judgement of the coaching team when they appoint a player captain who is recovering from injury with no firm date to return. Then in his place, they appoint a player as captain who is not in the leadership group and wouldn't make the starting line up if not for injuries to others.

More recently, as Drew Mitchell hasn't played in about six months, I can't imagine he will be starting or getting a lot of time off the bench during the South African sojourn. So wouldn't it be better for him to get some game time locally and if the comeback is successful, have him on the bench for the Canes game on June 2?

Lots of baffling decisions coming out of the Tahs for mine.



They did the same thing to Timana Tahu. He could have been a freak in rugby, if he'd gone anywhere else. He needed gametime, in the centres. You cant expect someone to learn their position at Super rugby level. If you're not going to start him, then give him 80mins every weekend at Shute Shield level, where he can actually learn how the game works, outside of Tahs training sessions. His game for Aus A against......someone in the Pacific cup comp, he was an absolute weapon. He so obviously had the talent, yet was fucked around by the Tahs, until Deans decided 'fuck it, I can see talent there' and picked him against the Boks.


And we know how that turned out.
 

FairWeatherAussie

Ted Fahey (11)
I think the original question is a very good one.

Last year, and maybe this year to some extent the Tah's have been unlucky. Last year especially, I wanted to hate the "tah's until I realised that almost every aussie player I liked was playing for them (FatCat, TPN, Burgess, Kepu, Palu, Barnes, Mitchell, Horne, and of course Beale). As much as I wanted to hate the NSW team I couldn't because it felt have almost felt like like going against Australian. Last year, pre-season, I thought they were the 'Real-Madrid' of Australia. I use the term the "Real-Madrid', because that was what most journo's were calling the Brumbies (those journalists having an idea and all about the game, at least editorial probably did correct most of their spelling mistake). But only weeks into the season the 'Tah's had pretty much an entire stand of their 'Real-Madrid'ian players watching each game. I thought they showed incredible courage to make it to the final 6 after the decimation they had suffered.

This year they have also been unlucky with injuries, but then again, what team hasn't. I mean can you imagine trying to play without Dan Carter and McCaw. They are probably more valuable than any player currently in Australia, but the Crusaders just chinned up, and kept on playing. And more often than not, winning. This year the 'Tah's have run out of excuses for their losses. I'd say they've been unlucky, most of their losses have by under 7 points and many in the last 5 minutes. I'd rate Schmoo as being worth 7-10 points a game, so one less injury might have turned a dour season into one of their best in last 10 years. But Mitchell is injured, and he isn't the saviour either. Well coached teams (Crusaders, Reds, etc.) take losses to their major players and adapt to it.

The 'Tah's problems seem to stem down to two related things. Poor coaching. And an organisation that is famous for how politicised it is. Although I believe they have been unlucky the last couple of years, the fact remains, they haven't just under-performed for the last couple of years, they've under-performed for last 15-17 year.

I don't know the numbers, but I'd imagine that in terms of feeder players, NSW outnumbers Queensland and vastly outnumbers ACT. Yet ACT managed to employ Jake White, bring through a number of unknown juniors, and with barely a wallaby cap (Moore and McCabe are not going to make a dent in the number of Caps NSW hold), become the Australian conference leader.

There is a very simple and possible solution for NSW rugby. I'm not sure what is the name of the company that runs NSW rugby, but that company needs to be cleansed from top to bottom. The only way this is going to happen is if someone like Murdoch or Russell Crow comes in and buy's the company. I don't think either of them would, but does anyone know if Mel Gibson is a rugby follower? Then all staff should be sacked and made to re-apply for their jobs. I'm sure 90% of them are pretty proficient and should be able to be rehired even in a competitive interview situation. The 10% who shouldn't be re-hired are probably mostly the 10% at the top. I'd start by doing a group interview of them and asking the group "So who's idea was it sack McKenzie anyway". I'd then sack anyone who answered (since they were probably complicit and trying trying to cover their own asses) and anyone accused (since they were obviously complicit)
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Ohhhh wibble.

Turner and Mitchell are your only serious losses. 80% of the other injured players are not starting 15. You've suffered about as many injuries as the Brumbies this year, and thats bugger all. You may have lost a few of your backups, and semi-starting players, but you still have a forward pack including an all Wallaby front row, Palu, Mumm, plus Barnes, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Kingston.

The Tahs are a relentless talent vaccum, year in year out they look the goods and have the strongest team on paper (even when the Brumbies were labelled the 'Real Madrid' of Aussie rugby, for scoring one player who was not snapped up by any other team, and still had less Wallabies than the Tahs), yet fail to deliver.

The less Tahs in the Wallabies, the better, and history 100% backs my argument.

Every player I mentioned was match day 22. But history being on your side and all................
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Just to point something out.

My points before Slim decided I was saying the brumbies win was tarnished,

*forwards are performing well
*backs are terrible
*coaching us to blame
*injuries have affected combinations
*injuries have affected form
*changing of positions between plays have affected the two above.

So in response
Brumbies fans believe
*injuries don't matter
*if a side has more wallabies than another they should be favorites
*that NSW is a talent drain
*that NSW fail to develop players

If slim or anyone would care to sign off on the statements that are correct or change the wording etc, I would love to have a clear baseline at which to judge every team in the comp.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
They did the same thing to Timana Tahu. He could have been a freak in rugby, if he'd gone anywhere else. He needed gametime, in the centres. You cant expect someone to learn their position at Super rugby level. If you're not going to start him, then give him 80mins every weekend at Shute Shield level, where he can actually learn how the game works, outside of Tahs training sessions. His game for Aus A against......someone in the Pacific cup comp, he was an absolute weapon. He so obviously had the talent, yet was fucked around by the Tahs, until Deans decided 'fuck it, I can see talent there' and picked him against the Boks.


And we know how that turned out.
Yep, Tahu was all the Tahs fault.
You need to up the dose on the tin foil in your hat.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The tahs don't think they've failed. Their so arrogant that they think making the finals a few times and winnings game without been entertaining is success. The point is that they have no consciousness about how crap people think they are.

Spot on.
And they haven't failed: "look how many injuries we've had...in fact given the difficult circumstances it was actually a success".
So then their die hard supporters will tell us that the same long term results were achieved but for different reasons. And there are different reasons to explain each season since whenever you choose to nominate.
Seems to me that's an unlikely scenario and the real cause must be more deep seated.
Defending the team is admirable up to a point but that point was passed long ago.
As Roy & HG would have said they need a long stint in the house of mirrors.
They also need their supporters to listen to their detractors and to take a flame thrower to the joint.


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