Schadenfreude
John Solomon (38)
I would say whatever madness grips someone to think Tom Carter would be an international standard player. If that sort of thing takes over a whole club - how can you help them.
What is wrong with the Tahs
- Thread starter Ghibli
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Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I was hoping you'd tell us what was different about the tactics, but so be it.
All but coach and captain are different every year so if you cant adapt to the other "variables" you should play some other sport, non-contact, indoors, domestic would narrow the complicating issues to age and opposition.....and short of playing computer games you cant do much about those variables. And if you think the variables you give are the real problem with the Tahs then you should join them.
As for coach and captain you have inadvertently hit the nail on the head: the names are different but its the same old same old, appointed by the same old same old....and guess what same old same old result.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
You can't just add up all the players who have missed a week here or there and claim injury crisis.
Go through the team list for every week and you'll see that it's consistently pretty good.
And despite the fact that you haven't had a broken Elsom or Vickerman, you've still got plenty of quality players like Douglas, Mumm, Timani, Dennis and co...
The amount of depth in the Tahs is ridiculous.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
coach and captain are not the same old, Waugh was like a warrior at the end of close games, this year we are leaderless at times.
the tactics have changed hugely from last year, due most in fact to the loss of Kurtley. i actually believe our forwards are playing a better game and are gaining more metres and are much more direct than they were under Hickeys last year.
in the backs, we have lost the spark that Kurtley provided, this was filled in part by Foley but the essential game plan last year was to use tom carter to get over the gain line, provide quick ball and when space was achieved have Kurtley join the line around outside centre to provide not only an extra ball runner but an extra ball player as well, this allowed the Tahs to play with much more width than they have played witht his year. Without Kurtley creating the impact Barnes in the games he has played at 10 has often been isolated, there doesn't seem to be multiple options and as a result he is drifting deep to create space for himself as the opposition know they can afford to send a couple of defenders straight at him.
B.Foley has been able to drift wide and when he does he has found space, unfortunately so many times the tahs 9/10 are getting caught by umbrella defence though and its causing the Tahs back line to drift in and compress.
i actually thought last night with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne that this might change a bit but the back line (as mentioned in commentary) kept compressing and closing down options even without the ball.
the main difference though is the lack of players running onto the ball, in one move last night with the flat pass to horne it showed (as the brumes have this year) that playing close tot eh advantage line creates many more opportunities than playing behind it.
the changes are pretty obvious, the back line is terrible, especially with the foundation it is being given.
No4918
John Hipwell (52)
I'll accept the injury excuse from the Reds and Tahs this year as had both been full strength i believe they would have made the finals. But i'd still criticise the Tahs. They consistently fail to show up and look disinterested for large parts of games. Still would have happened if they had made the finals theyd have just had the roster to get them through. Neither result is good for them in the long run though. Now they can just blame injuries, publicly it wont happen but it will be very easy for people behind the scenes to use this excuse and not make hard decisions. And despite bad signs about the culture had they made the finals they would likely have considered the season a success and again the tough decisions would not be made. Lose/lose so i feel for Tahs fans to a degree. The players though i do not.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
at times i enjoy debating you slim, but I'm not reaching for excuses, if you read my previous posts i mentioned form.
consistency of players both in form and position lead to combinations and therefore better play, the Waratahs have not had that this year. it is due to injury and coaching. but neither is exclusive.
next time the Brumbies play the Tahs can they rest there
best 2 wingers
best 2 flankers
only play moore for 30 minutes
there best 2nd rower
there 13
there 15
and we will see how it goes.
im not using injuries as an excuse, but it is a justifiable reason why. The Tahs still put 15 on the field and as a fan i still want and expect them to win.
saying there is no injury crisis is BS.
Schadenfreude
John Solomon (38)
Their.
A
AlexH
Guest
I think the problem is they are not from Queensland.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
WJ it all makes sense but my challenge was to tell us why the result this season is, in practical terms, the same as last season and yet, you say, its not for the same reason. You've told me what was happening last year and you've told me what is happening this year, tactically speaking. Why do different tactics produce the same result?
2 reasons:
1. fundamental skills of catch, pass, tackle and (dare i say it) kick;
2. attitude.
The reason the captain represents more of the same is that Waugh was past it and so is Elsom. Furthermore Waugh had too much say in the running of the joint and Elsom was unwanted by every other province but is a mate of Foley's - why was he unwanted? I know but I'll await an invitation from a mod before I tell you - I know how touchy they get over us bagging public people.
To me, the Tahs appear to simply lack decent structure.
They attacked with purpose once in the game off set piece, with players in motion off the ball and Horne scored. Every other time it was back to the past. One out runs, Pakalani, Palu,AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) et al, no motion off the ball, no idea.
Now off phase, I struggle to see the plan, I struggle to see the structure. One out static runs, no one hitting the ball at pace, no one (like the Bulls) drive with a unit on the hip. The only plan I see is get over the advantage line and chip in behind.
They attacked with purpose once in the game off set piece, with players in motion off the ball and Horne scored. Every other time it was back to the past. One out runs, Pakalani, Palu,AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) et al, no motion off the ball, no idea.
Now off phase, I struggle to see the plan, I struggle to see the structure. One out static runs, no one hitting the ball at pace, no one (like the Bulls) drive with a unit on the hip. The only plan I see is get over the advantage line and chip in behind.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Which 2 best flankers didn't play?
Mccutcheon was hardly the undisputed best player in his position, and Dennis is currently better than Rocky... And you has Rocky on the bench!
Best 13? Didn't you have AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the team?
You were also fielding the following players:
Robinson, TPN, Kepu, Douglas, Mumm, Timani, Elsom, Drnnis, Palu, Mckibbin, Pretorius, Barnes, Tom Carter (or is he no longer the best underrated player in the country?), Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
That was up against a team containing 3 Wallabies and a group of rookies and supposed journeymen.
The majority of teams are carrying injuries. And the Tahs haven't been badly hit.
The Tahs have been only missing one player of considerable influence and that's Mitchell.
They simply cannot blame their poor form on injuries.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Inside shoulder - it's not the same result. That's the point. Results are different from year to year. This year is a completely different beast to last.
If the Tahs won all there remaining games with bonus points, won the finals, were super rugby champions, would you be happy, or would you decide the success by there "failures" in previous years and call them averge?
If the Tahs won all there remaining games with bonus points, won the finals, were super rugby champions, would you be happy, or would you decide the success by there "failures" in previous years and call them averge?
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
So if the brumbies had that same injury list it wouldn't matter. With all due respect slim, I'm not questioning the brumbies win or the Tahs loss, I'm saying it's a factor. If your saying it's not, fine, it's one of those occasions that during a debate I can say that I'm right and your wrong and feel 100% justified in it.
If the brumbies go poorly without Lilo does his injury become a factor In There play or is it because McCabe is overrated?
The Red Baron
Chilla Wilson (44)
Seems to me like a whole lot of excuses coming from a certain individual on this forum, no real point arguing I suppose...
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Well feel free to point out what excuses the individual you mention has made and ask relevant questions so the debate can continue.
The Red Baron
Chilla Wilson (44)
Oh no, I'm not playing that silly game. You have made up your mind, and I have no wish to beat my head against a wall.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
With all due respect, I have stated an opinion, I have debated my opinion, sighting reasons and facts I believe back up the opinion I have formed. Taking a swipe at me instead of voicing your own opinion is a bit backhanded and juvineile. I don't ask anyone to believe what I believe but you seem to suggest that what I believe is invalid. If this is so I would ask you to state your opinion with facts and reasons as to why you believe this to be so while offering reasons as to why my opinion is not.
If your unable to do so, I would prefer you didn't take swipes at me.
Hope you have a great weekend.
The Red Baron
Chilla Wilson (44)
Ok wow, you have read way too much into things there. Instead of 'taking a swipe' at you, I actually made an observation. If you feel that insecure about the opinion you have formed, maybe you should revise it.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Eh, if the Brumbies had that injury list (which amounts to a handful of players), but still fielded a team filled with Wallabies and experienced players like the Tahs then, no... it wouldn't be an excuse.
You obviously see the difference?
Please tell me you're not blind to the fact that there's a clear difference?
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