Western Force vs Reds, 2011R17

[tranquility]

Higgers and Taps < Taps and Chambers

Tapuai is a gun, but he was invisible when he played 13.

 

[Godfrey]

I know, that was just my Higgers at centre team. I think if he was in the centres you wouldn't put him at 13 where the defensive reads are harder. I would really be surprised if the centres aren't Taps and Chambers.

 

[vidiot]

....
3. Slipper
4. Horwill
5. Slipper
...

Forget Higginheimer,

Slipper lifting Slipper in the lineout is the change I look forward to seeing. Link is really getting creative!

 

[Godfrey]

Now I'm just so embarassed

 

[vidiot]

Mate, when they said Slipper could be anything in the future, this is the sort of thing I was hoping for!

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Higgers and Taps < Taps and Chambers

Tapuai is a gun, but he was invisible when he played 13.

100% agree on that. Looked lost all game when he was at 13, and ran the wrong lines quite a few times. Keep him at 12 and Chambers to 13 is the obvious choice. Wish Harris was available, I would much prefer him at 12 to Tapuai.

 

[farva]

Moving away from the Reds, who will miss out to allow for Shep and JOC (James O'Connor) to come back to the Force backline?

Id suggest that the halves combo will stay as is. But the centres will be difference I think.

Will Inman get the chop to allow JOC (James O'Connor) to shift to 12, Sidey to 13? Or will Sidey get culled? Or both to allow Dellit to go from 15 to 13 for Shep to play 15.

Its a conundrum for RG to have.

Personally, id like to see a backline of Swanepoel, Stannard, Cullet, JOC (James O'Connor), Inman (him running off of JOC (James O'Connor) and Stannard would be a sight to behold), Smith, Shepherd.... Sheehan (if he isnt back then Mafi), Sidey, Dellit

 

[farva]

Im gonna do a head to head as well...

Assuming Higs starts as a forward...

Longbottom v Slipper - Reds - Slipper is the Wallaby TH for a reason
Charles v Fa'ainga - Force - Charles plays tight, Fingers doesnt
Fairbrother v Daley - Force - Fairbrother knows how to scrummage, Daley doesnt.
Wykes v Horwill - Reds - Hrowill is the incmbent Wallaby, Wykes is vying to be his back up
Sharpe v Simmons - Force - Sharpe is the best lock in the country bar none
Hodgson v Higgenbotham - Force - One is seriously being considered as a centre, the other isnt. Enough said
Pocock v Gill - Force - Do I need to explain this?
McCalman v Samo - Even - This is really interesting, who will be the starting 8 for the Wallabies, thsi may decide it.
Swanepoel v Genia - Reds - One is good, the other is the best.
Stannard v Cooper - Reds - One is good, the other is the best.
Cummins v Davies - Force - Davies has speed, Cullet plays rugby
JOC (James O'Connor) v Tapuai - Force - Do I need to explain this?
Inman v Chambers - Even - This could be interesting. Both had great years last year. Neither have excelled this year for differing reasons
Smith v Shipperly - Force - Smith was on fire last week. if he brings that game again, watch out!
Shepherd v Morahan - Even - Both vying to back up Beale and too hard to pick

Whittaker v Hanson - Force - Meh, Im biased
Dunning v Holmes - Even - both getting a bit past it
Hocking v Humphries - Reds - Humphries is old but can still swear
Brown v AWH - Force - Brown is a machine at super level
Sheehan v Prior - Force - who is Prior?
Sidey v Randon Centre - Force - I liked random centre's game last week, but he just isnt in the same league...
Dellit v Random Outside Back - Force - I liked random oustide back's game last week, but he just isnt in the same league...

Force - 13
Reds - 5
Even - 4

Of course, that is if the Force "A" game turns up. They have a habit of leaving it behind after wins the week before.

 

[tranquility]

Im gonna do a head to head as well...

Assuming Higs starts as a forward...

Longbottom v Slipper - Reds - Slipper is the Wallaby TH for a reason
Charles v Fa'ainga - Force - Charles plays tight, Fingers doesnt
Fairbrother v Daley - Force - Fairbrother knows how to scrummage, Daley doesnt.
Wykes v Horwill - Reds - Hrowill is the incmbent Wallaby, Wykes is vying to be his back up
Sharpe v Simmons - Force - Sharpe is the best lock in the country bar none
Hodgson v Higgenbotham - Force - One is seriously being considered as a centre, the other isnt. Enough said
Pocock v Gill - Force - Do I need to explain this?
McCalman v Samo - Even - This is really interesting, who will be the starting 8 for the Wallabies, thsi may decide it.
Swanepoel v Genia - Reds - One is good, the other is the best.
Stannard v Cooper - Reds - One is good, the other is the best.
Cummins v Davies - Force - Davies has speed, Cullet plays rugby
JOC (James O'Connor) v Tapuai - Force - Do I need to explain this?
Inman v Chambers - Even - This could be interesting. Both had great years last year. Neither have excelled this year for differing reasons
Smith v Shipperly - Force - Smith was on fire last week. if he brings that game again, watch out!
Shepherd v Morahan - Even - Both vying to back up Beale and too hard to pick

Whittaker v Hanson - Force - Meh, Im biased
Dunning v Holmes - Even - both getting a bit past it
Hocking v Humphries - Reds - Humphries is old but can still swear
Brown v AWH - Force - Brown is a machine at super level
Sheehan v Prior - Force - who is Prior?
Sidey v Randon Centre - Force - I liked random centre's game last week, but he just isnt in the same league...
Dellit v Random Outside Back - Force - I liked random oustide back's game last week, but he just isnt in the same league...

Force - 13
Reds - 5
Even - 4

Of course, that is if the Force "A" game turns up. They have a habit of leaving it behind after wins the week before.

I found this quite funny. I can only assume you were having a laugh.

 

[farva]

I found this quite funny. I can only assume you were having a laugh.

Well, it was there to stir up some comments. There are a few changes I would make.
But Im interested to see other takes on the matter.

 

[Hawko]

Im gonna do a head to head as well...

Force - 13
Reds - 5
Even - 4

Of course, that is if the Force "A" game turns up. They have a habit of leaving it behind after wins the week before.

Did the same analysis before the Force/Tahs game when the Tahs had major injury problems and got very similar results. But what happened? The totally outclassed Tahs took the game away from the Force by a sheer effort of will and a totally fucked Force gameplan which had JOC (James O'Connor) at fullback kicking everything he got. Eventually the Tahs just held the ball in the forwards and ground it out.

The leveller is the coaches and their ability to develop a gameplan to win. Link can and Graham can't. Maybe Graham learnt from last time but it has taken an injury to Ripia for RG to see the obvious - that Ripia was making the backline disfunctional. I for one would not be surprised to see Swanepoul and Stannard back on the bench this week. Disappointed but not surprised.

So despite the Force having a clearly superior outfit I rate the Force as outsiders on this one and I think that Link's selection and gameplan will get them home. The Reds can get the precious home final with two wins - they will be absolutely pumped.

 

[Ash]

Reds need to scrape together two wins to get a week off and recharge / get injured players back - that's more important than the home final right now (which they are guaranteed anyway as they have already topped the Aus conference).

But...the Reds are up against it for this one. Force will be tough at home, and they're coming off a big win in NZ, which will give them loads of confidence. More importantly, the Force closed out a close one, which is something they've really struggled to do this year. The Reds will need a monster showing from their pack to pull this one off.

 

[Tangawizi]

Reds only just managed a win in round 1 without Beau at home so Force should go into this as favourites at the TAB.

That said, I expect S Finger, Simmons, Higgers, Cooper and Genia to all put in substantially improved efforts this week compared to what they did against the Brumbies.

Who knows what the Reds bench will end up looking like. Probably not even Link at this stage.

 

[tranquility]

So despite the Force having a clearly superior outfit I rate the Force as outsiders on this one and I think that Link's selection and game-plan will get them home. The Reds can get the precious home final with two wins - they will be absolutely pumped.

Now I am just getting confused. Do you honestly think the Force will roll out a 'clearly superior outfit' to the Reds? Not that it matters, what you or I think about the individual players as rugby is a collective effort. However this comment still baffles me.

 

[qwerty51]

Now I am just getting confused. Do you honestly think the Force will roll out a 'clearly superior outfit' to the Reds? Not that it matters, what you or I think about the individual players as rugby is a collective effort. However this comment still baffles me.

This week I would say the Force do. I do rate the pack much better. The Reds backs are obviously the difference but with injuries I'm not so sure, the Force backline in the last 2 weeks with Swanepoel and Stannard steering them look 5x as better when it was Sheehan/Ripia.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

As the teams line up, I would say that the Force have better individuals in some areas (in the context of the injury situations of both teams), but the Reds are better coached and play better as a team. That's how rugby games are won and that is why they should win. I will say this though: I think the Force have one of the best and most underrated packs in the competition.

 

[RedsHappy]

Amongst many other potential dimensions for the assessment as to what team will likely win this match, let's recall the last Reds game that A Fainga'a did not start, v Canes - the Reds defensive structure loosened badly and the Canes scored multiple 1H tries as a direct result...AF comes on later in that match, Reds' defensive results markedly improve. Note as well: Cooper's place kicking % success remains unstable and sub-par (v top kickers in S15), and that will be v JO'C's better overall %s, and place kick %s could well be the deciding factor for final points, as is soooooo often the case in tight games where a relatively low number of total tries are scored.

 

[ChargerWA]

Did the same analysis before the Force/Tahs game when the Tahs had major injury problems and got very similar results. But what happened? The totally outclassed Tahs took the game away from the Force by a sheer effort of will and a totally fucked Force gameplan which had JOC (James O'Connor) at fullback kicking everything he got. Eventually the Tahs just held the ball in the forwards and ground it out.

The leveller is the coaches and their ability to develop a gameplan to win. Link can and Graham can't. Maybe Graham learnt from last time but it has taken an injury to Ripia for RG to see the obvious - that Ripia was making the backline disfunctional. I for one would not be surprised to see Swanepoul and Stannard back on the bench this week. Disappointed but not surprised.

So despite the Force having a clearly superior outfit I rate the Force as outsiders on this one and I think that Link's selection and gameplan will get them home. The Reds can get the precious home final with two wins - they will be absolutely pumped.

Good analysis Hawko. I fear you may be right about the Halves ending up back on the bench.

In the head to head, I would have Dellitt in at 13 for Inman, even though Inman is probably a better 13, he is gone next year to the Rebels and now is a good time to develop Dellitt who will hang around.

I have often wondered how Shepherd would go as a 13, but it would be a massive waste of his kicking abilities, and he is also prone to getting broken. For some reason Australia's 13's tend to break easily. Look at our luck with 13 compared to Smith for the AB's and Fourie for the Boks.

 

[tigerland12]

That said, I expect S Finger, Simmons, Higgers, Cooper and Genia to all put in substantially improved efforts this week compared to what they did against the Brumbies.

Who knows what the Reds bench will end up looking like. Probably not even Link at this stage.

I thought Simmons and Cooper were good actually, the players around Cooper made him look bad

 

[Blue]

Good analysis Hawko. I fear you may be right about the Halves ending up back on the bench.

In the head to head, I would have Dellitt in at 13 for Inman, even though Inman is probably a better 13, he is gone next year to the Rebels and now is a good time to develop Dellitt who will hang around.

I have often wondered how Shepherd would go as a 13, but it would be a massive waste of his kicking abilities, and he is also prone to getting broken. For some reason Australia's 13's tend to break easily. Look at our luck with 13 compared to Smith for the AB's and Fourie for the Boks.

Not so sure. Those two players are probably broken the most for each of their countries. Fourie is a walking injury. Should have had twice the amount of tests by now.