Waratahs v Brumbies Sat 22nd March 7:30 PM Allianz
- Thread starter Dctarget
- Start date
Shiggins
David Codey (61)
4 or 5 im thinking. Biggest challenge will be blues at the end when I'm assuming they will have all their players back from injury. Play them now and the tahs probably win
molman
Jim Lenehan (48)
Ok, got a chance to watch the replay after seeing this game live. I know I'm bias, but the Waratahs were deserving of that win, they played the better game. The Brumbies looked a bit flat.
It was interesting to go back and see some of the critisim of the referee in this thread. Do I agree with all the calls, no, but I'm not sure Ben O'Keefe (BOK) was anywhere as poor as some would make out, not to mention he seems to be getting lumped in with some of the complaints that were really the TMO's call.
Some thoughts;
- Jorgensen and Gleeson were the standouts for the Tahs. Gleesons impact even in comparison to Valetini (who wasn't bad) was very evident live. Jorgensen was the Tahs prime attacking threat. I'm really looking forward to Sua'ali'i returning to add to the mix. I think I'd love to see him in the centers personally.
- I also thought Wilson was excellent and Reilly has been really stepping up this season. Kellaway is solid out back and Leota is starting to show glimpses of his prior form. I've also been really impressed with Grant. He's not going to make the highlight reels, but he's really solid and is going about his work well.
- Creighton was improved. His conversion from the sideline was solid and generally he didn't do much wrong. I'm not a big fan of their kicking game at times however. The kick ~11-12min felt aimless.
- The Brumbies were lucky to not loose a couple of other players in that game. Gleeson looked to be hit head high a couple of times. The first tackle from Toole looked high to me, right on the chin/lower face, clearly upright. Ikitau also had another tackle on Gleeson that likewise looked high, before it was finally the Hooper/Pollard tackle at ~26mins that they sent someone off. Sapsford tackle on Kellaway at around the 37min mark also looked to be a high shot and you could see Kellaway being understandably annoyed that was supposidly cleared. Hoopers flip suplex style tackle was one of the more silly things I've seen. Ball was well clear. Just brain dead and not going to help his Wallaby chances.
- The lineout was a real issue for the Tahs. I'm not sure if it was a Heaven issue, but we lost a lot of our lineouts (I counted at least 4 or so and even some we won weren't clean). It's why when they got a penalty right out front at around the 56min mark I wanted them to slot it to push out the lead. Loosing Porecki for the game and then Vailanu (who I really hope is ok) early wasn't ideal. I did think Heaven did well generally however.
- Agree that it should have been a Brumbies penalty for Vailanu, he was clearly in the way of the Brumbies play even if injured.
- Lolesio was incredibly poor. He had a knock on, kick straight out into touch, another knock on under a high ball, missed a conversion, another cross kick out and generally didn't add a lot this game. The Brumbies looked more threatening with Goddard and Debreczeni on to be honest, though hard when your comparing against a tiring side.
- Neville didn't have a good game for the Brumbies, he was also really poor this game.
- The Jorgensen out or not out (foot in touch with ball), I feel was inconclusive. It sure looks like he was possibly out, but there wasn't a clear view of ball contact and his foot on the line at the same time. Not to mention law 18.2 which if he's just knocking it back it doesn't matter if his foot is on the line anyway.
- The Bell poor wrap, Heaven chop at around 39mins I feel probably should have been a penalty, it was a bit sloppy.
- The Brumbies no try at ~49mins I feel was correctly a knock on, but I do understand the annoyance of the players and fans, though Lonergan was laying it on a bit thick when he said it have been 20 phases. I think I counted about 8 rucks from the knock on.
- The Brumbies rolling maul which lead to a try around the 52min mark I feel should have been a Tah's penalty. Slipper and Toole break away to the front and provide obstruction. Right before they go down AAA's head it basically in the back of Toole who's in front of the maul, not connected with Leota trying to defend. Was poor that it wasn't picked up/called. I wonder if they'd gone over it would have.
- The Brumbies try around the 75min mark was very well setup. I'm not sure who called it, but if you watch Ikitau at the 74.44-74.54min mark. You can see the Tahs have folded a little too much, he tracks (jogs) all the way from the right wing, around the back to come off Wright's left hip, running at a hole in the Tah’s line, Toole has likewise tracked around from the right wing to be in play on Ikitaus left, and by ~74.58mins you can see all three backs breaking through with I think it's Sapsford on the left wing. Watching live it was really evident seeing them setup for this. The Tah's need to do better with their setup and comms in defense.
- The tempo of this game was very stop, start. I was surprised that BOK didn't try to move the pace along. That said, a lot of the stops were for TMO injections.
- In the final lineout at ~78mins, the Brumbies knock on in the lineout. I have no idea why BOK didn't call it? I'm also not sure Wilson's box kick at around the 78-9min mark was the right option. If your going to kick, give it to Tane and punch it into the corners and make them play from their end of the field.
- The reserve front row for the Tahs really struggled against the Brumbies at scrum time. They will need to work hard at shoring things up.
- The crowd at the game was really good, great turnout, perfect rugby weather and a really good vibe.
It was interesting to go back and see some of the critisim of the referee in this thread. Do I agree with all the calls, no, but I'm not sure Ben O'Keefe (BOK) was anywhere as poor as some would make out, not to mention he seems to be getting lumped in with some of the complaints that were really the TMO's call.
Some thoughts;
- Jorgensen and Gleeson were the standouts for the Tahs. Gleesons impact even in comparison to Valetini (who wasn't bad) was very evident live. Jorgensen was the Tahs prime attacking threat. I'm really looking forward to Sua'ali'i returning to add to the mix. I think I'd love to see him in the centers personally.
- I also thought Wilson was excellent and Reilly has been really stepping up this season. Kellaway is solid out back and Leota is starting to show glimpses of his prior form. I've also been really impressed with Grant. He's not going to make the highlight reels, but he's really solid and is going about his work well.
- Creighton was improved. His conversion from the sideline was solid and generally he didn't do much wrong. I'm not a big fan of their kicking game at times however. The kick ~11-12min felt aimless.
- The Brumbies were lucky to not loose a couple of other players in that game. Gleeson looked to be hit head high a couple of times. The first tackle from Toole looked high to me, right on the chin/lower face, clearly upright. Ikitau also had another tackle on Gleeson that likewise looked high, before it was finally the Hooper/Pollard tackle at ~26mins that they sent someone off. Sapsford tackle on Kellaway at around the 37min mark also looked to be a high shot and you could see Kellaway being understandably annoyed that was supposidly cleared. Hoopers flip suplex style tackle was one of the more silly things I've seen. Ball was well clear. Just brain dead and not going to help his Wallaby chances.
- The lineout was a real issue for the Tahs. I'm not sure if it was a Heaven issue, but we lost a lot of our lineouts (I counted at least 4 or so and even some we won weren't clean). It's why when they got a penalty right out front at around the 56min mark I wanted them to slot it to push out the lead. Loosing Porecki for the game and then Vailanu (who I really hope is ok) early wasn't ideal. I did think Heaven did well generally however.
- Agree that it should have been a Brumbies penalty for Vailanu, he was clearly in the way of the Brumbies play even if injured.
- Lolesio was incredibly poor. He had a knock on, kick straight out into touch, another knock on under a high ball, missed a conversion, another cross kick out and generally didn't add a lot this game. The Brumbies looked more threatening with Goddard and Debreczeni on to be honest, though hard when your comparing against a tiring side.
- Neville didn't have a good game for the Brumbies, he was also really poor this game.
- The Jorgensen out or not out (foot in touch with ball), I feel was inconclusive. It sure looks like he was possibly out, but there wasn't a clear view of ball contact and his foot on the line at the same time. Not to mention law 18.2 which if he's just knocking it back it doesn't matter if his foot is on the line anyway.
- The Bell poor wrap, Heaven chop at around 39mins I feel probably should have been a penalty, it was a bit sloppy.
- The Brumbies no try at ~49mins I feel was correctly a knock on, but I do understand the annoyance of the players and fans, though Lonergan was laying it on a bit thick when he said it have been 20 phases. I think I counted about 8 rucks from the knock on.
- The Brumbies rolling maul which lead to a try around the 52min mark I feel should have been a Tah's penalty. Slipper and Toole break away to the front and provide obstruction. Right before they go down AAA's head it basically in the back of Toole who's in front of the maul, not connected with Leota trying to defend. Was poor that it wasn't picked up/called. I wonder if they'd gone over it would have.
- The Brumbies try around the 75min mark was very well setup. I'm not sure who called it, but if you watch Ikitau at the 74.44-74.54min mark. You can see the Tahs have folded a little too much, he tracks (jogs) all the way from the right wing, around the back to come off Wright's left hip, running at a hole in the Tah’s line, Toole has likewise tracked around from the right wing to be in play on Ikitaus left, and by ~74.58mins you can see all three backs breaking through with I think it's Sapsford on the left wing. Watching live it was really evident seeing them setup for this. The Tah's need to do better with their setup and comms in defense.
- The tempo of this game was very stop, start. I was surprised that BOK didn't try to move the pace along. That said, a lot of the stops were for TMO injections.
- In the final lineout at ~78mins, the Brumbies knock on in the lineout. I have no idea why BOK didn't call it? I'm also not sure Wilson's box kick at around the 78-9min mark was the right option. If your going to kick, give it to Tane and punch it into the corners and make them play from their end of the field.
- The reserve front row for the Tahs really struggled against the Brumbies at scrum time. They will need to work hard at shoring things up.
- The crowd at the game was really good, great turnout, perfect rugby weather and a really good vibe.
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I think Jorgo does regather the ball and it was out but if he only bats the ball back infield then based on law 18.2 (d) it isn't out even though he is standing on the line.
18.2The ball is not in touch or touch-in-goal if: d. A player, who is in touch, kicks or knocks the ball, but does not hold it, provided it has not reached the plane of touch.
My thoughts on the match.
Firstly, I missed seeing it live as I was away for my 10th wedding anniversary. Somewhat can't believe I missed seeing the first win over the Brumbies at home in a decade.
I thought several players had close to their best games for the Waratahs. Teddy Wilson was excellent and I thought Julian Heaven really brought some physicality in defence and was pretty important given he was a late inclusion and then played far more minutes than would have been planned.
Tristan Reilly had a really good game and did very well scoring his try.
Jorgo is a freak and is just getting better. His skill on the final try to volley the ball at pace around Debreczeni for Walton to regather and score was sublime.
The refereeing was generally atrocious and just so inconsistent. Some dubious calls made and some pretty obvious ones missed. I've never got why Ben O'Keefe is considered the number 1 NZ referee.
Firstly, I missed seeing it live as I was away for my 10th wedding anniversary. Somewhat can't believe I missed seeing the first win over the Brumbies at home in a decade.
I thought several players had close to their best games for the Waratahs. Teddy Wilson was excellent and I thought Julian Heaven really brought some physicality in defence and was pretty important given he was a late inclusion and then played far more minutes than would have been planned.
Tristan Reilly had a really good game and did very well scoring his try.
Jorgo is a freak and is just getting better. His skill on the final try to volley the ball at pace around Debreczeni for Walton to regather and score was sublime.
The refereeing was generally atrocious and just so inconsistent. Some dubious calls made and some pretty obvious ones missed. I've never got why Ben O'Keefe is considered the number 1 NZ referee.
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In terms of the Angus Bell no arms tackle, much to the surprise of the commentators they were clearly just focused on the low tackle from Julian Heaven (which was fine).
Does Angus Bell do enough with his left arm trying to wrap that it wasn't a no-arms tackle? It's always a challenge when a big hit is made and the ball carrier drops quickly as to whether there was an attempt to wrap and it just didn't happen because the ball carrier went to ground too fast.
Does Angus Bell do enough with his left arm trying to wrap that it wasn't a no-arms tackle? It's always a challenge when a big hit is made and the ball carrier drops quickly as to whether there was an attempt to wrap and it just didn't happen because the ball carrier went to ground too fast.
Wilson
John Eales (66)
Classic NSW bias, claiming the tahs as the wallabies again
Derpus
Phil Waugh (73)
Bell pretty lucky IMO.
Derpus
Phil Waugh (73)
Such a strange rule.
I think Bell was very lucky to escape sanction. Sort of tries to wrap, but doesn't. At least a penalty.
Classic NSW bias, claiming the tahs as the wallabies again
Touché!
I think he's lucky too but I don't think it was egregious.
In my opinion Ben O'Keefe is the referee in World Rugby most prone to avoiding calling out foul play because he wants to act on as little as possible in that regard (I think that has also been a very New Zealand view of wanting to diminish foul and dangerous play to justify keeping all the players on the field).
As we saw in this game it led to inconsistency more than anything.
Homer
Darby Loudon (17)
You can actually score a try the same way. If you are in touch, but not carrying the ball, and touch it down i.e. kick chase.
Crashy
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
minor calf complaint. The same old chestnut they trotted out for Joseph 'no games' Sua'ali'i. ( he just has some minor cramping). As he hobbled off the field.
Heavyd
Colin Windon (37)
I just logged on to ticketek to get some tickets on the isle early and a couple of bays are already gone 3 weeks before the game. That's a very promising sign.
Dctarget
David Wilson (68)
Forgot to add, in all the discussion of Leota's seagulling, he did some pretty impressive defence too. There was one piece midway through the 2nd half that Leota tracked and tackled T. Wright, who offloaded to Toole, Leota then scrambled off the deck and managed to get to Toole and make a tackle in as many seconds.
Rob42
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Yep. McKellar was vague in the press conference, "not long term". So I'd assume it'll be about 4 weeks or more, since that's what he said about Sualii as well.