Waratahs 2014

[JSRF10]

Don't see what all the fuss is about, Naiyaravoro has physical attributes that little or none of the outside backs in the Shute Shield have. That, and his rugby background, make taking a minor punt on him something worth doing. You mightn't have noticed but recently our back up wingers haven't exactly been setting the house on fire either.

 

[Pfitzy]

Because they're not wingers...

 

[boyo]

Car door.

 

[Braveheart81]

The Que? it's the Shute Shield,where Cheika should be sourcing all his new recruits sans rock stars like Izzie & Potgeiter.
There are stacks of players that would sell their soul for an opportunity,and a modest contract.
They had plenty lining up to do the Gen Blue thing,and train full time with the Tahs for months FOR NOTHING.

The next winger in the Gen Blue team was generally Joel Brooks who came from subbies and has only just started playing Shute Shield to my knowledge.

If Cheika thought he was worthy of a contract at this stage then I'm sure he would have offered him one.

Gen Blue players didn't get paid, but saying they got nothing out of it is not correct. They had the opportunity to play at a higher level, train in a professional environment and push for a full time contract. Some of those players who trained through the off season did earn contracts on the back of their efforts.

There are many pathways to professional rugby now days just as there are in many sports. We're seeing players go overseas earlier to develop and then come back (such as Tala Gray and Matt Carraro) and lots of youngsters going to the NRL Holden Cup out of high school to further their development.

The Shute Shield is just another place that players look for opportunity for further honours.

Why should Cheika sign a player from Gen Blue or the Shute Shield if he doesn't think they're the player he's looking for?

 

[Ado Tornado]

There's a fair bit of him here. If you FF (Folau Fainga'a) through the 14mins of mostly mundane mungo ball, you'll see he's big and can motor.

But check this bloke out -Alipate Ratini. He's the one that really got away. Was playing for the Sharks last year in the NSW cup. Just went to Grenoble.

 

[cyclopath]

If the competition was fair dinkum, you rich bullies would give up twenty points start to the top half of the competition, and forty to the lower half.


The Rats really beat you by twenty-one points, by any rational measure.

Can't see much scope for a rational argument with you on that, given your stance about anything remotely to do with University. "You rich bullies" - thanks for that, tarring long-term supporters in such a way is puerile, given that's all most of us are, since I am just a supporter, not the actual SUFC. I have hardly been an apologist for Uni over the years on these boards, and can see many of the arguments against what they do, but this irrational rubbish doesn't further anything. When they ship all their Super players back in, the playing field is not level, I fully agree. Maybe the vitriol should be poured upon the powers that be who oversee the SS to do something about it? I would welcome it. Currently, it's hard to argue many, if any, of the 1st XV are more than club players. As with many years, the first half to two-thirds of the SS sees a close battle between 4-6 teams up top and the best rugby is seen in this phase. I for one enjoy it, but it seems you struggle to enjoy much at all. Pity.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

I watched his "highlights" video yesterday. I know there's a lot less required of the attacking players in league, but he does a fair bit of running (very upright) into 2 or 3 blokes, pushing them about 1-2m and then jogging back to his spot on the wing with his back turned. Granted he made a couple of breaks, but from what i presented I wonder how he will adapt to SuperRugby. Then again, I'm not a rugby coach

 

[I like to watch]

The next winger in the Gen Blue team was generally Joel Brooks who came from subbies and has only just started playing Shute Shield to my knowledge.

If Cheika thought he was worthy of a contract at this stage then I'm sure he would have offered him one.

Gen Blue players didn't get paid, but saying they got nothing out of it is not correct. They had the opportunity to play at a higher level, train in a professional environment and push for a full time contract. Some of those players who trained through the off season did earn contracts on the back of their efforts.

There are many pathways to professional rugby now days just as there are in many sports. We're seeing players go overseas earlier to develop and then come back (such as Tala Gray and Matt Carraro) and lots of youngsters going to the NRL Holden Cup out of high school to further their development.

The Shute Shield is just another place that players look for opportunity for further honours.

Why should Cheika sign a player from Gen Blue or the Shute Shield if he doesn't think they're the player he's looking for?

Brooks was described to me as a Mungo by one of his Gen Blue team mates.
That is how he got the gig,not from playing subbies.
In regards to no pay,you have completely done a 180 with a pike.Your original point was that you believed it was highly unlikely that SS players could be bothered signing for modest wage in lieu of their current employment.
Now you are agreeing with me,that it is a prized opportunity that many RUGBY players would leap at.
It's hard to argue with you about pathways,when you appear to suggest without a hint of irony that the fucking Holden Cup is a pathway to a Waratahs contract.
I agree it's a pathway,I just don't think it should be.

 

[Aussie D]

I'm not sure he will adapt. In that highlights package he didn't seem to be able to tackle at all - just grab an upright player and hold until support arrived. He passed the ball on one occasion only. The tries he did score where he was motoring the players didn't seem to know how to tackle - they tried to go high or seemed reluctant to commit low. It is only until the end of the season but like others if I were an in form SS player I'd be wondering what it was I had to do to get in.

Oh, and watching that 14 minute video was an awful experience, if that is indicative of rugby league I would have to applaud the patience of the average league fan as that game is awful - maybe the value of watching league on tv is the hyperbole of the commentators.

 

[Redsfan]

I watched his "highlights" video yesterday. I know there's a lot less required of the attacking players in league, but he does a fair bit of running (very upright) into 2 or 3 blokes, pushing them about 1-2m and then jogging back to his spot on the wing with his back turned. Granted he made a couple of breaks, but from what i presented I wonder how he will adapt to SuperRugby. Then again, I'm not a rugby coach

Glad I'm not the only one entirely underwhelmed. He might be able to run fast, but he definitely doesn't hit contact at speed. Can't see where/how he can be useful.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Glad I'm not the only one entirely underwhelmed. He might be able to run fast, but he definitely doesn't hit contact at speed. Can't see where/how he can be useful.

maybe we need another soft backrower?

 

[Braveheart81]

Brooks was described to me as a Mungo by one of his Gen Blue team mates.
That is how he got the gig,not from playing subbies.
In regards to no pay,you have completely done a 180 with a pike.Your original point was that you believed it was highly unlikely that SS players could be bothered signing for modest wage in lieu of their current employment.
Now you are agreeing with me,that it is a prized opportunity that many RUGBY players would leap at.
It's hard to argue with you about pathways,when you appear to suggest without a hint of irony that the fucking Holden Cup is a pathway to a Waratahs contract.
I agree it's a pathway,I just don't think it should be.

Lee Grant's synopsis on Brooks:

Joel Brooks is the second subbie invited to train with the Tahs. A Balman junior in the rugby league code he had never played rugby union until he was 19 when he joined with some mates who were playing Colts subbies for Hunters Hill in 2011.
In 2012 he swtiched to the Brothers club, based in Roseville, to continue Colts subbies rugby. He played first grade for them this year.
A personal trainer outside of rugby union and with certificates to back it up, Joel is passionate about keeping himself in shape.
The 21-year-old is not only fit but is fast as well. He scored 34 tries in 2013 as a wing or fullback for Brothers and was snapped up by West Harbour at the end of the season. The Harbour coach Matt Briggs contacted Michael Cheika and Joel was invited to Tahs’ training.
Though Joel is interested in Sevens, his main goal is to get a Waratahs contract; but if he doesn’t get one this time:

So yes, you could say he was a mungo, but never as an adult and only came to the attention of the Tahs from playing subbies rugby. I don't know how you could claim he got the gig with the Tahs because he was a mungo as a kid.

I agree that there is some hypocrisy in what I said regarding players training for free during the off season hoping for a contract and there potentially not being that many people who might have jumped at the opportunity to be paid by the Tahs for the last three months of the 2014 season (on who knows what salary). If you look at who many of those players were, they weren't necessarily the best uncontracted Shute Shield players. They were a mix of players of varying standards all of whom were willing and able to dedicate the time to training during the day during the Summer.

My guess is that the opportunity came up for both the Tahs and the player to join up for a couple of months and see what happens. It isn't hard to see why Cheika might be interested in a 190cm 115kg winger.

Who knows whether Cheika approached other players beforehand with the offer of a short term contract.

I don't get this whole queue argument. There are 5 Australia Super Rugby franchises who are all looking everywhere they can for prospective players. If the Shute Shield was entirely the Waratahs domain to recruit players then maybe there'd be a better argument for them to only source players from there. The reality is that their only advantages in sourcing players from the Shute Shield is that those players wouldn't need to relocate and might be Waratahs fans.

 

[fatprop]

I'm not sure he will adapt. In that highlights package he didn't seem to be able to tackle at all - just grab an upright player and hold until support arrived. He passed the ball on one occasion only. The tries he did score where he was motoring the players didn't seem to know how to tackle - they tried to go high or seemed reluctant to commit low. It is only until the end of the season but like others if I were an in form SS player I'd be wondering what it was I had to do to get in.

Oh, and watching that 14 minute video was an awful experience, if that is indicative of rugby league I would have to applaud the patience of the average league fan as that game is awful - maybe the value of watching league on tv is the hyperbole of the commentators.

I assume he is on an EPS contract as all he was at the Tigers was a NSW Cup player, lets just see how he goes in the NRC and the Shute Shield before we write him off

 

[Braveheart81]

I guess this is why the NRC is so important so that there is a professional pathway to Super Rugby from within Australian rugby.

Players looking to become Super Rugby players aren't just biding their time as amateur rugby players hoping for an opportunity to come their way. They are looking for professional opportunities overseas or in rugby league as stepping stones.

If the NRC becomes a better pathway then you might see players taking those other options less frequently. More likely you will just see other players hoping to build a professional rugby career taking those opportunities as they become available.

 

[Pfitzy]

There's a fair bit of him here. If you FF (Folau Fainga'a) through the 14mins of mostly mundane mungo ball, you'll see he's big and can motor.

I really couldn't. I even tried jumping to bits and pieces but it always came up the same - three loping steps, run into two blokes, walk back to your spot.

Awful...

 

[I like to watch]

I don't get this whole queue argument. There are 5 Australia Super Rugby franchises who are all looking everywhere they can for prospective players. If the Shute Shield was entirely the Waratahs domain to recruit players then maybe there'd be a better argument for them to only source players from there. The reality is that their only advantages in sourcing players from the Shute Shield is that those players wouldn't need to relocate and might be Waratahs fans.

The que argument goes like this,
You & I both excel at Schoolboy level.
You go to colts and then grade.
I go to Holden Cup,then NSW cup.
I realise it's a dead end & come back to Rugby.
You have been excelling at Colts and now grade.
I get the invite to train with the Tahs and trial for them.
It's now a recurring theme and it's fucked.

 

[Lindommer]

Dropping Crawford from this week's 23's a good way to piss him off. Cam's the sort of player the Tahs need for the next four or five years. There were too many wingers around last year after Betham came on board, Turner still on the books and then Kingston and Crawford hit their straps. TBH Tom and Cam are better than Peter, it'd be a shame to lose Crawford as well.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

He's going to have a problem with ball retention: he leads in with the ball carrying arm (stray elbow??) because he knows they're not allowed to strip him.
when he made a break the blokes chasing seem to keep up with him so I'd be wondering how quick he is.
I hope there's some footage we haven't seen because based on watching maybe 3 SS games this season I'd be prepared to say he's not head and shoulders above the best of what I've seen.
I'm with ILTW - going down this path completely undermines the U20's program and to a lesser extent the NRC: commit to our game and we'll look after you!
On Braveheart's point: is the NRC pro? I thought it was supposed to be a hybrid of discarded (for Wobs) s 15 players and amateur wannabes.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm with ILTW - going down this path completely undermines the U20's program and to a lesser extent the NRC: commit to our game and we'll look after you!
On Braveheart's point: is the NRC pro? I thought it was supposed to be a hybrid of discarded (for Wobs) s 15 players and amateur wannabes.

I thought the NRC would be professional in that non contracted players will get paid to play (and contracted players are already getting paid).

I think everyone would like the pathway to just be every schoolboy player going to play colts and then grade and NRC and then the best of them getting picked up by a Super Rugby franchise at some point but the reality is very different now. There are lots more options available to the players and things like the Holden Cup or going and playing lower grade European rugby as a professional are now part of those options. Those players get the advantage that they can train and play full time and don't have to worry about working in a different job so they clearly have an advantage over players who are purely amateurs, training two or three times a week in the evenings and then playing on Saturdays.

It's a reality that many of the best schoolboy rugby players are going into the Holden Cup out of high school (or whilst at high school) because they view that as their best opportunity to further themselves as a professional athlete. A very few high school rugby players will get Super Rugby contracts straight out of high school and bypass all the other options.

 

[sanchez]

Slightly off topic to current convo - but my members password for waratahs tickets (50% off) isn't working anymore. It was Believe2014, but that doesn't seem to work anymore.

Anyone else having the same problem?