Waratahs 2014

[I like to watch]

You are entirely missing the point,and seem to be confusing the issue by talking about some are free to train full time and some are not.
First of all,Holden cup players earn less than most SS 1st graders.
There is a budget of $250k but invariably there are 2 or 3 players earning in excess of $50k. That leaves usually $100k for the other 23 players.
No one is suggesting we go back to the old days & ex communicate them forever.
But I just don't accept it is good policy to ignore well performed players coming through the ranks in preference to someone who tried their luck in Mungo,and failed.
By all means bring them back,and judge their performance in a like for like scenario.these are not superstars we are talking about,they are the fish that John West rejected.If they are not prepared to come back and prove their worth first then who cares.let them play A grade or go and play in 3rd division in Europe somewhere.

 

[fatprop]

The que argument goes like this,
You & I both excel at Schoolboy level.
You go to colts and then grade.
I go to Holden Cup,then NSW cup.
I realise it's a dead end & come back to Rugby.
You have been excelling at Colts and now grade.
I get the invite to train with the Tahs and trial for them.
It's now a recurring theme and it's fucked.

disagree with your premise, the key issue in Aus rugby is the transition between schoolboys and pro rugby The lack of professional physical development in the Colts to Grade scenario at many clubs is pretty clear.

Unless you get an EPS from school (maybe 5) or get a game at Uni just where in rugby will you get a near pro training program and possibly even paid to do so?

So some go off the pro/semi pro RL, why is that a problem? They don't grow two heads from playing a bit of RL

 

[Braveheart81]

Aside from Taqele Naiyaravoro who exactly are we talking about that is being recruited from league? He's contracted for the rest of the season on a presumably low salary. Who knows where it will go from there.

It seems that this one signing has caused the barrage of criticism regarding recruitment policies and claims the Shute Shield is being ignored.

The Tahs like every Australian franchise have recruited from a bunch of places including the Shute Shield.

 

[I like to watch]

disagree with your premise, the key issue in Aus rugby is the transition between schoolboys and pro rugby The lack of professional physical development in the Colts to Grade scenario at many clubs is pretty clear.

Unless you get an EPS from school (maybe 5) or get a game at Uni just where in rugby will you get a near pro training program and possibly even paid to do so?

So some go off the pro/semi pro RL, why is that a problem? They don't grow two heads from playing a bit of RL

How can you logically agree with the premise that the best performed in your code,should continued to be overlooked for FAILURES in another code.
By all means embrace them,welcome them back.
Then AFTER they have proven themselves to be better than those that stayed loyal,you pick them.
It should not be the case it is easier to get an opportunity if you fail in Mungo,than if you stay and excel in Rugby.
Most of the better performed SS players are physically developed.
The Tahs aren't recruiting teenagers from Mungo either,so who cares where they are physically at 19.

 

[Braveheart81]

How can you logically agree with the premise that the best performed in your code,should continued to be overlooked for FAILURES in another code.
By all means embrace them,welcome them back.
Then AFTER they have proven themselves to be better than those that stayed loyal,you pick them.
It should not be the case it is easier to get an opportunity if you fail in Mungo,than if you stay and excel in Rugby.
Most of the better performed SS players are physically developed.
The Tahs aren't recruiting teenagers from Mungo either,so who cares where they are physically at 19.

Who exactly are you talking about besides this one player who has been signed on a short term contract?

 

[I like to watch]

Jack Littlejohn pre sea season 2013, trialled with the Tahs then played 2's for Randwick before giving up mid season.
Usai Sullivan toured Argentina late last year,trialled with Tahs earlier this year.At least he is playing 1st grade,but was outplayed by 1/2 a dozen Rats backs when I saw him play.
James Cunningham also full pre season & trialled with Gen Blue.
This bloke, am sure there are plenty more but that's a start.

 

[Braveheart81]

Do you know if they were the only players asked?

Do you know if there weren't a bunch of Shute Shield players who were asked if they could train all Summer and said no, we have jobs?

 

[I like to watch]

Yep,I'm sure they canvassed a stack of SS players that were too busy to tour Argentina!
If your argument now is that it's ok for these guys to get the fast track,because we can't be sure one or two SS players might have knocked it back.
It is a very weak argument.

Edit: bearing in mind,I saw Cheika give a speech to NSW Schools,where he banged on & on about him wanting all those in the room to only want to play for the Tahs.
You can't ask people to be loyal,and then treat them as disposable,when you think you have a shinier new toy.

 

[Dave Beat]

Jack Littlejohn pre sea season 2013, trialled with the Tahs then played 2's for Randwick before giving up mid season.
Usai Sullivan toured Argentina late last year,trialled with Tahs earlier this year.At least he is playing 1st grade,but was outplayed by 1/2 a dozen Rats backs when I saw him play.
James Cunningham also full pre season & trialled with Gen Blue.
This bloke, am sure there are plenty more but that's a start.

ILTW - don't bother the real game is this weekend on the coast some where

 

[scaraby]

Slightly off topic to current convo - but my members password for waratahs tickets (50% off) isn't working anymore. It was Believe2014, but that doesn't seem to work anymore.

Anyone else having the same problem?

yeah new password is" f..k not again2014"

 

[Hugh Jarse]

ILTW - don't bother the real game is this weekend on the coast some where

and "the real game this weekend on the coast some where" will be over by 10am, leaving you with plenty of time for a leisurely lunch somewhere near the coast with your loved ones.

yeah - venturing up to pittwater for an U7 kick off @ 9am.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Slightly off topic to current convo - but my members password for waratahs tickets (50% off) isn't working anymore. It was Believe2014, but that doesn't seem to work anymore.

Anyone else having the same problem?

Try Believe 2015

It's a reality that many of the best schoolboy rugby players are going into the Holden Cup out of high school (or whilst at high school) because they view that as their best opportunity to further themselves as a professional athlete. A very few high school rugby players will get Super Rugby contracts straight out of high school and bypass all the other options.

I know the arguments - i think maybe it just comes down to this particular bloke and it may be that its not fair to judge him on the video but I think he put it together so i reckon we can assume its as good as it gets: if so my beef is that it ain't overwhelming.
Hell - I'd like to compare it with some footage of Kellaway playing u20s (and I am by no means a Kellaway fan, to the contrary) - he must be going OK for him to be talking about maybe playing Tahs later this year.
I accept also that he's likely being paid small beer - but small beer is in short supply in rugby at the moment.
Either winger for the Rats (assuming they're eligible) looked worthy of a try and I'm sure others who see more club rugby than me would be bale to name blokes I've never heard of.
Let's see too how the Rats debutante goes this week against the Marlins: not for a contract opt any sort but as a yardstick for what's out there.
On fatprop's point about pro development: remind me - did this new signing pass the ball once in the video? (a) that's a prime weakness in loig players (b) the Tahs don't need any more fellas without the basics

 

[Braveheart81]

Yep,I'm sure they canvassed a stack of SS players that were too busy to tour Argentina!
If your argument now is that it's ok for these guys to get the fast track,because we can't be sure one or two SS players might have knocked it back.
It is a very weak argument.

Edit: bearing in mind,I saw Cheika give a speech to NSW Schools,where he banged on & on about him wanting all those in the room to only want to play for the Tahs.
You can't ask people to be loyal,and then treat them as disposable,when you think you have a shinier new toy.

I don't know the answer to these questions and neither do you. We're both speculating and taking opposing sides of the argument.

Clearly Cheika likes something he sees in certain players and wants to see more of them. Hence why someone like Usaia O'Sullivan went to Argentina and some other potentially more obvious Shute Shield players didn't. He also took Alofa Alofa, Tolu Latu and David Horwitz to Argentina and they were the three uncontracted players from that tour that ended up with contracts.

I guess the coach's prerogative is that he can pick the players he wants and the Waratahs aren't a representative side from the Shute Shield. You'd imagine that when he's looking at players from SS, form plays a big part but he'd also be thinking that other players might have more potential in a professional environment and he wants to take a punt on them rather than someone who is performing better than that player currently.

I'm guessing with the recruitment of the Naiyaravor, Cheika has decided that he has space in his squad to recruit him for the rest of the season to see if it is worthwhile investing in the player for the next year. Clearly there is the thought that a 190cm, 115kg winger could provide something they can't find elsewhere.

 

[Hawko]

Possibly not, but why not?

I the AR didn't hear it (unlikely), then the ref certainly did because he spoke to Phipps. I heard it, many people on the thread heard it, but apparently not one person in authority heard anything? Hard to believe I'm afraid.

Probably because the ref knew the AR had made a bad decision and excused it on the grounds that Phipps was upset/over-wrought. Not saying I agree, but I'd guess that was his reasoning.

Phipps can be a bit immature at times (you'll note he was calling for some tough love for the team this week when he was the player most in need of it for his passing skills).

 

[boyo]

Former Wallabies and SUFC star Phil Waugh puts hand up for SCG trust

By Chris Barrett
Sydney Morning Herald
29 April 2014

Former Wallaby Phil Waugh is running for a seat on one of the state’s most prestigious boards, the Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust, and wants to help the push to make Allianz Stadium ‘‘one of the great rectangular sports venues in the world’’.

A holder of 79 caps for the Wallabies, including three as captain, the 34-year-old retired in 2011 after a long career with the Waratahs in which he captained the state 58 times.

Waugh is one of 29 nominees for two member-elected positions on the board, which oversees the SCG and Allianz Stadium precinct and boasts the likes of Alan Jones, Westpac chief Gail Kelly, Harvey Norman chief Katie Page and former Test cricketers Steve Waugh and Stuart MacGill, as trustees.

Another in the field is former Test bowler David Gilbert, who spent 11 years in the precinct as chief executive of Cricket NSW before his resignation 15 months ago.

Phil Waugh, Gilbert and current trustee James McNally are contesting the two available positions, with another ex-Wallaby Ken Catchpole not standing for re-election after winning the last ballot in 2010.

Four years ago McNally, a property consultant, became the first non-international sportsman voted in by members since the first election of trustees in 1980.

Waugh, who has a career in corporate finance with the Commonwealth Bank, hopes to become a natural replacement on the Trust for 74-year-old Catchpole.

‘‘I’ve got a lot to add having played at the Sydney Football Stadium for 15 years. I understand the area and the precinct very well,’’ Waugh said.

‘‘I still look back on my career and I was very fortunate to travel around the world and play at some of the world’s best venues but some of my fondest memories are at the Sydney Football Stadium with the full crowd and the atmosphere in that precinct when there’s a big game.’’

Of particular interest to Waugh is the future of Allianz – home of the Sydney Roosters, the Waratahs and Sydney FC.

The trust has an ambitious master plan – which follows on from the $197 million new Noble, Bradman Messenger Stand at the SCG – to include a full upgrade and a ‘‘clear membrane roof’’ at Allianz, making it the country’s first naturally lit enclosed stadium.

‘‘A lot of people who visit the Sydney Football Stadium have had the experience of visiting Suncorp Stadium and obviously the way that everything works there in terms of the facilities in the stands and the ease of getting in and out of the ground and things like that. It’s a great example of a well-structured venue," Waugh said.

"Something along those lines is needed in Sydney and, having the venue there at the Sydney Football Stadium, it’s the perfect location for what I believe can be one of the great rectangular sports venues in the world.’’

The Trust's new chairman Tony Shepherd paid tribute to the departing Catchpole.

“Ken Catchpole was one of rugby union’s greatest servants on the field, redefining the role of halfback for all who came after him,” Shepherd said.

“In his 22 years as a trustee Ken continued that contribution off the field. He has been an advocate for the members who have supported him and each of the sports played here, but above all he has been a constant strong voice for rugby union at its spiritual home, the SCG and Allianz Stadium.”

The trust’s 18,500 members are eligible to vote and have until May 27 to lodge their votes.

For link to article please click here.

 

[I like to watch]

I don't know the answer to these questions and neither do you. We're both speculating and taking opposing sides of the argument.

Clearly Cheika likes something he sees in certain players and wants to see more of them. Hence why someone like Usaia O'Sullivan went to Argentina and some other potentially more obvious Shute Shield players didn't. He also took Alofa Alofa, Tolu Latu and David Horwitz to Argentina and they were the three uncontracted players from that tour that ended up with contracts.

I guess the coach's prerogative is that he can pick the players he wants and the Waratahs aren't a representative side from the Shute Shield. You'd imagine that when he's looking at players from SS, form plays a big part but he'd also be thinking that other players might have more potential in a professional environment and he wants to take a punt on them rather than someone who is performing better than that player currently.

I'm guessing with the recruitment of the Naiyaravor, Cheika has decided that he has space in his squad to recruit him for the rest of the season to see if it is worthwhile investing in the player for the next year. Clearly there is the thought that a 190cm, 115kg winger could provide something they can't find elsewhere.

He took 4 un contracted players, and subsequently gave contracts to the 3 that had good SS form!

Obviously Cheika has the right to recruit from whatever pool he chooses.
I just don't agree with it.

Anyway,I don't think we are going to convince the other of our POV.
So that will do me on this topic
Cheers

 

[Braveheart81]

He took 4 un contracted players, and subsequently gave contracts to the 3 that had good SS form!

These were the uncontracted players he took on that tour.

Alofa Alofa (West Harbour)
Jack Dempsey (Gordon)
Auvasa Falealii (Newcastle Waratahs)
Alex Gibbon (Southern Districts)
Terrence Hepetema (Randwick)
David Horwitz (Randwick)
Tolu Latu (Sydney University)
David Lolohea (West Harbour)
Usaia O'Sullivan (West Harbour)
Kerren Straker (Penrith)
Sam Talakai (Sydney University)
Keliti Vangalo (Eastern Suburbs)
Liam Winton (Sydney University)

Agreed that it's time to call it quits on this line of discussion.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

These were the uncontracted players he took on that tour.
Terrence Hepetema (Randwick)
Keliti Vangalo (Eastern Suburbs)

These two are in (or will shortly be) in Frogland.

 

[qwerty51]

Hepetema is in Pommyland playing for Leicester

 

[I like to watch]

He has very good manager.