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Waratahs 2013

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Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
Lee's right - very interesting.
The problem is have you worked out when 20 weeks is up?
I have..28.11.2012 - too late for 2013?

Just means you have to only pay 20 weeks when you terminate. You don't have to keep him on till then.

Bret Harris article in the Australian today: "Like all Waratahs employees, Foley had a 20-week termination clause in his contract, which meant he could have been easily fired if the team had similar results next year."
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
but then there's the money issue......and do you really think who ever's left at Tahs HQ is up to terminating someone without provoking litigation?
 

sudrugby

Watty Friend (18)
Daniel Halangahu will play for Zebre, the new Italian franchise which is replacing Aironi in the Celtic League
 

rugbyvet

Chris McKivat (8)
Todd Louden. The best development coach in Australian rugby. Outstanding record as an assistant coach in Super Rugby and as a Head Coach in the Sydney Premiership.
.
Some would argue John Manenti is best development coach in country, look what he has done at Eastwood. When he joined the woods they had missed out on the finals in 2008 and were nearly bankrupt- since then (with a great deal of help from Brian Melrose for first 2years) they went finals 2009, minor premiers in 2010 then Premiers in 2011. This was all done while being a part time coach , with no money and resources. Louden inherited a great team, great set up and great resources so comparatively based on club rugby you could argue Manenti is a superior coach.
However Louden does have a wonderful record at Super Level taking Tahs to final and winning with the bulls.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Some would argue John Manenti is best development coach in country, look what he has done at Eastwood. When he joined the woods they had missed out on the finals in 2008 and were nearly bankrupt- since then (with a great deal of help from Brian Melrose for first 2years) they went finals 2009, minor premiers in 2010 then Premiers in 2011. This was all done while being a part time coach , with no money and resources. Louden inherited a great team, great set up and great resources so comparatively based on club rugby you could argue Manenti is a superior coach.
However Louden does have a wonderful record at Super Level taking Tahs to final and winning with the bulls.
Agreed, I should have included Melrose in the above as well. He also had a very positive impact on Manly.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Daniel Halangahu will play for Zebre, the new Italian franchise which is replacing Aironi in the Celtic League

Good luck to Hangers. Sad to see his Super career peter out the way it has, but looking back he had some good years and served NSW rugby well.

One of the more memorable players in the recent history of the Shute Shield.
 

Badger

Bill McLean (32)
Captain Benn Robinson says senior players should be consulted before appointing new Waratahs coach
  • By Ben Horne
  • AAP
  • August 01, 2012 6:28PM
New South Wales captain Benn Robinson said he's shocked by Michael Foley's defection to the Western Force and is adamant the Waratahs' senior players should be given a say on his replacement as coach.
Robinson said he had no knowledge of a reported split in the playing group between players who were in support of Foley and those who wanted the first-year coach forced out after the Super Rugby franchise's worst-ever season.
Wallabies prop Robinson was a Foley supporter.
"It's very disappointing to lose a coach of his calibre," he said on Wednesday from an Australian training camp.
"It's a big shock to the players ... I don't know of any of those factions. The players I spoke to had full support behind Foles."
Foley has accepted a three-year deal to coach the Force and phoned Waratahs players to explain his decision.
Robinson revealed his disappointment at the way things have gone down at the troubled club and wants the chance to voice his opinion on who the new Waratahs coach should be.
"I'd hope so. It would be good to have a few players involved in that process," he said.
"It's going to come down to the management and the board's decision but it'd be nice for them to speak to some of the key players and (for us) to have a fair say or influence on how the team should be moving forward.
"I'd love to have at least a few words about certain issues as well.
"With Webby (team manager Chris Webb) and now Foles going and Edwin (Chairman Edwin Zemancheff) as well, it's been challenging."
Although confident there are no factions amongst the squad, Robinson said appointing a new coach quickly is paramount to the Waratahs being able to bounce back on the field next year.
At the moment Australian Michael Cheika, who has had success coaching in Europe, is the leading candidate.
After winning just four matches from 16 starts in 2012, Robinson called on Waratahs administrators to give the players stability.
"Personally it'd be nice to have a coach as soon as possible. Get their understanding of where they want the team to go in this next period and make sure all the players are on the same page as well," he said.
"Time will tell but these next few months are very crucial for us. Things have been rattled the last few months with speculation going back and forth and that always creates a slight disturbance.
"The hardest part is for some of the younger players coming through and this is their first experience at Waratahs level.
"Once positions are filled and players have knowledge of where things are going, players will settle pretty quickly and rip straight into work."

Letting the senior players have a say? How did that work out when they reportedly wanted a lighter pre-season preparation? Player power rears its head again. The new Tahs coach better be a hard nut.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
I'm a fan of Robinson, but Ben you lot lost the last 8 games, had 25% win ratio. I wouldn't give you a say on what music gets played on the team bus.
By supporting a failed coach, you confirm you are not qualified to comment on who might be your future boss might be.
Just work harder for who ever the management decides should be in charge.
 

AngrySeahorse

Peter Sullivan (51)
Some would argue John Manenti is best development coach in country, look what he has done at Eastwood. When he joined the woods they had missed out on the finals in 2008 and were nearly bankrupt- since then (with a great deal of help from Brian Melrose for first 2years) they went finals 2009, minor premiers in 2010 then Premiers in 2011. This was all done while being a part time coach , with no money and resources. Louden inherited a great team, great set up and great resources so comparatively based on club rugby you could argue Manenti is a superior coach.
However Louden does have a wonderful record at Super Level taking Tahs to final and winning with the bulls.

Good post Rugbyvet!

I still like Louden but I forgot about John Manenti & yes I think he's pretty darn good too. He has certainly done a very good job with the Wallaroos (Women's Rugby 15's). Once again he had a lack of resources but helped steer the girls to 3rd spot behind powerhouses NZ & ENG at the last WRWC. Given the numbers & resources those two countries have it says a lot about Johns ability.
 

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
Todd Louden. The best development coach in Australian rugby.
Bruce - I disagree with that!! However, I think it is due to the board & administration - Uni's sucess comes from excellent administration, player management, and also some other benifits that are often pointed out, but lets just concentrate on what is done well.
Todd Louden, John Manenti, & Tim Lane could all clutch at that tittle.
Some would argue John Manenti is best development coach in country, look what he has done at Eastwood. When he joined the woods they had missed out on the finals in 2008 and were nearly bankrupt- since then (with a great deal of help from Brian Melrose for first 2years) they went finals 2009, minor premiers in 2010 then Premiers in 2011. This was all done while being a part time coach , with no money and resources. Louden inherited a great team, great set up and great resources so comparatively based on club rugby you could argue Manenti is a superior coach.
I think we are talking at cross purposes. I am not surprised that people misinterpret what I mean by "development coach" because it is a term that has virtually no currency in rugby.

Let me explain in what way I consider Louden differs from the other coaches mentioned. Almost a decade ago he established the Elite Development Squad (EDS) system at Sydney Uni. As far as I know it was a quite fundamental innovation at club level with a very strong focus on physical conditioning through heavy weight training. Largely because of its implementation Sydney Uni has been producing more professional rugby players than any club in the world.

Since he came back to Uni last season he has implemented an expanded version of the EDS by establishing an additional Wider Training Group (WTG), so well over a hundred Grade and Colts players have been involved in a professional style training regime. There has been a much greater focus on skills acquisition. With over 30 Uni players involved in Super or national Sevens programs Louden had to rely on young unknown players to make up his First Grade squad. Colts age players and others who had previously played Fourth Grade became regular top graders. At this stage of the season Super players are coming back to the Club but without exception they have been developed through the EDS program set up by Louden.

Just how comprehensive is the development program is demonstrated by the fact that Uni leads the points table in each of the 3 lower Grades and the 3 Colts Grades.

I do not believe there is a better developer of players in Australian Rugby than Todd Louden.
.
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
There is a magic little note in an Australian article I saw on another thread that says that all staff at the Tahs are on a 20 week termination clause. If this is true then termination costs will not be the major driver when deciding what to do with people.

Terminate with prejudice.
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
I'm a fan of Robinson, but Ben you lot lost the last 8 games, had 25% win ratio. I wouldn't give you a say on what music gets played on the team bus.
By supporting a failed coach, you confirm you are not qualified to comment on who might be your future boss might be.
Just work harder for who ever the management decides should be in charge.

Considering Benn hasn't performed since 2009, I don't think he should really have a say in anything.
 

BPC

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Wait: aspirin makes your car go faster?

Sugar is even better! After all, sugar is fuel for humans so it must work as fuel for cars too! The logic is impeccable!

Or best yet, sugar and aspirin!

Please give it a try and let us know how you get on.
 

BPC

Phil Hardcastle (33)
I do not believe there is a better developer of players in Australian Rugby than Todd Louden.

I disagree. Given the player rumblings, we need a coach with fire, a real disciplinarian who will put the fear of God into the players (and turn the atheists into believers and then put the fear of God into them). I have just the man:
Lugash.jpg

Lugash on recruitment: "Okay, for next exercise, put hands on hips, jump out window and tell parents to STOP WASTING MY TIME WITH FAILURE CHILD"

Lugash on visualisation as an aide to training: "Relax, pretend floor is full of snakes, you fall - THEY KILL YOU! Relax, relax, - SNAKES!"
 
L

Linebacker_41

Guest
There is a magic little note in an Australian article I saw on another thread that says that all staff at the Tahs are on a 20 week termination clause. If this is true then termination costs will not be the major driver when deciding what to do with people.

It is called Gardening Leave.

Yes you pay them for 20 weeks but well worth the investment if they are only going to undermine your business. We have all seen it done in many businesses.
 

rugbyvet

Chris McKivat (8)
I think we are talking at cross purposes. I am not surprised that people misinterpret what I mean by "development coach" because it is a term that has virtually no currency in rugby.

Let me explain in what way I consider Louden differs from the other coaches mentioned. Almost a decade ago he established the Elite Development Squad (EDS) system at Sydney Uni. As far as I know it was a quite fundamental innovation at club level with a very strong focus on physical conditioning through heavy weight training. Largely because of its implementation Sydney Uni has been producing more professional rugby players than any club in the world.

Since he came back to Uni last season he has implemented an expanded version of the EDS by establishing an additional Wider Training Group (WTG), so well over a hundred Grade and Colts players have been involved in a professional style training regime. There has been a much greater focus on skills acquisition. With over 30 Uni players involved in Super or national Sevens programs Louden had to rely on young unknown players to make up his First Grade squad. Colts age players and others who had previously played Fourth Grade became regular top graders. At this stage of the season Super players are coming back to the Club but without exception they have been developed through the EDS program set up by Louden.

Just how comprehensive is the development program is demonstrated by the fact that Uni leads the points table in each of the 3 lower Grades and the 3 Colts Grades.

I do not believe there is a better developer of players in Australian Rugby than Todd Louden.
.
I don't want to argue here especially with Bruce as I have seen many a man humbled however I don't think any other club coach has the time, resources, finances, facilities or cattle to implement such a program. Give any coach all of these things and they would probably be successful especially considering most of the competition (other clubs) run on the smell of a oil rag and are part time coaches
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
That could be true but proven experience maximizing resources matters too. In other words, resources are not a guarantee of success.
 
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