mjw
Larry Dwyer (12)
We need a leader from somewhere and Rocky hasn't been able to fill that position this year and I would argue noone else has yet either. That is another of our problems.
Waratahs 2013
- Thread starter fatprop
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Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
My point is that the Tah's have a massive hoarding problem. They need to learn to let go! They spend all their money on useless junk and let it build up, making it hard to sift through the rubbish and find the gems that more often than not, end up in Brumbyland...
Here is a picture inside Foley's office taken in April;
The guy needs some help. He needs someone to come in and clean up Mumm, Elsom, Vickerman so that he can make space for players like Hoops, without them drowning in all the clutter that is Waratahland...
The "Like" button is just not sufficient!!!!!!!
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
By the way i can't see any Gilberts - everyone needs to be walking around with a gilbert....or, if money is too tight, trying to get someone else's gilbert from them
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
Ben Mowen signs with Brumbies - july 6, 2011
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/ben-mowen-signs-with-brumbies-20110706-1h1vj.html
Michael Foley takes over as head coach - 19/08/2011
http://www.nswrugby.com.au/NSWRugby/News/NewsArticle/tabid/374/ArticleID/4188/Default.aspx
Wallabies breakaway Rocky Elsom re-signs with Australian Rugby Union for two more years - September 13, 2011
http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/w...r-two-more-years/story-e6frf55l-1226135871647
my defence is pretty thin, evidence, fact, timing all on my side...........yep, not sure how i come back from this one. side note - Vickerman club move a boost for both Waratahs and Wallabies - feb. 1. 2011
http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-unio...th-waratahs-and-wallabies-20110131-1ab7j.html
vickerman was signed by Hickey last year, meaning the only recruitment issue for this year of a crocked player is Elsom.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
You don't think Mowen might have inquired what was planned in Tahland for 2012 and where he fitted in before pissing off? I bet he did and he got one or both of 2 answers:
1) NFI
2) Next year is going to bigger and better than ever...just wait and see
So the Foley re-signing: decided on 18.8.2011? No prior indication?...worked out the night before? "hey mate...what you doin next year?"..."want to coach the tahs?"
let me understand who you're defending: Foley? - he had no hand in the crocked line up.
The Tahs - they appointed foley but he had no hand in the crocked line up.
Hickey - he appointed foley - but neither had any hand in the crocked line up?
Zemancheff - El Presidente - inhereited Hickey (I think), appointed foley - but not responsible for either or the crocked lineup.
TahMan?
Growden?
The BarterCard boy - or has he been given the flick in favour of a carbon neutral means of running the tee on - or have they decided on the basis of a costs benefit analysis that they have so few kicks at goal (as opposed to aimless general kicks) that they don't need a tee nor anyone to run it on? Saw dust it is - there's some in Tahmans biceps - who signed that Joke, Tahman?
Its all those people on GGR: they have broken the spirit of our fine outfit.
1) NFI
2) Next year is going to bigger and better than ever...just wait and see
So the Foley re-signing: decided on 18.8.2011? No prior indication?...worked out the night before? "hey mate...what you doin next year?"..."want to coach the tahs?"
let me understand who you're defending: Foley? - he had no hand in the crocked line up.
The Tahs - they appointed foley but he had no hand in the crocked line up.
Hickey - he appointed foley - but neither had any hand in the crocked line up?
Zemancheff - El Presidente - inhereited Hickey (I think), appointed foley - but not responsible for either or the crocked lineup.
TahMan?
Growden?
The BarterCard boy - or has he been given the flick in favour of a carbon neutral means of running the tee on - or have they decided on the basis of a costs benefit analysis that they have so few kicks at goal (as opposed to aimless general kicks) that they don't need a tee nor anyone to run it on? Saw dust it is - there's some in Tahmans biceps - who signed that Joke, Tahman?
Its all those people on GGR: they have broken the spirit of our fine outfit.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
no, I'm saying your assumption that the Tahs let Mowen gone so they can sign Elsom is wrong. i have provided fact as to why i believe this as well as dates. feel free to now change the issue as i would hate to let facts get int he way of grand statements.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
WJ - wake up and smell the roses.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
with all due respect, telling someone to "wake up" who has presented facts against your conspiracy theory is probably not the best way to go about debating.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Ok, I forgot about Timani, credit where credit is due, it was a big call to bring one on so young so hat's off.
All the rest debuted last year or prior, all of them will be a year older than the age you quote at some time this year.
11 of the squad turns 28 or over this year.
There are 2 under 23 in a squad of 34.
So they don't seem to be coming on as as quick as they will be coming off, do they?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I didn't say "wake up" I said wake top and smell the roses - they mean 2 very different things so don't be offended.
There's no point in this debate I think they are a badly run outfit and that failing retain a bloke like Mowen and signing a bloke like Elsom (and Vicks to a lesser extent) is absolutely shithouse planning. You don't - fair enough: you are one loyal committed fan and i dips me lid to you for that.
Braveheart - they're not old I agree but i reckon they are almost another generation of squandered talent (the one's over 22) - this rot can only be stopped with the next generation or a complete gutting NOW.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
planning changes. I'm not loyally committed to it with rose coloured glasses, its a shame Vickerman hasn't been sighted his leadership and ability is lacking for them. Yet i understand that the issues that have stopped his return have been complications that were unforeseen, every player is a gamble, its a contact sport and every recruitment decision can be bad and good regardless of the quality or youth of the player.
with two young locks on the books in douglas and timani, i would much prefer them playing along side vickerman and learning on the job, i understand his recruitment and am disappointed for him and the team.
Elsom is a different matter. i reject the claims Mowen left due to conspiracy, the guy chose to and if someone chooses to you can't begrudge them the opportunity elsewhere.
the one thing the whole debate about crocked players that is completely stupid though is the fact that our forward pack is the most dominate part of our game regardless of it, debating the backs and their coaching would be far more relevant and applicable to the Tahs fortune this season than blaming Elsoms signing.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Very true. I think it was a mistake to recruit Elsom in part because it took attention away from the backs. I've said many times that I think the deep flaws in the back line were masked by Drew and Kurtley last year. We've seen what happens when you can't just chuck it to a game breaker. If I had to pick anything for the remainder of this season and the offseason, it would be to see a strong focus on development (and then recruitment) of skill players. Give B Foley more responsibility, give Kingston a lot of ball, etc. I would prefer to see us lose but have our young players with potential develop in-game skills and moves than grind out a couple of meaningless wins just through pack dominance and penalty goals.
Seriously, why the fuck is everyone arguing about Elsom, Mumm, Mowen and Vickerman, not that I agree with them being all good decisions or errors of omission?? Dud signings or no, the Tahs are bereft of ideas, strategy and execution mainly in the backs. They have enough first phase and breakdown pill to win umpteen games, they have little or no idea as to what to do with the fucking thing.
Cue someone with the old chestnut about keeping it in the pigs, because backs are all ... .... .... ... (apologies to Slim for ellipsis abuse).
Sure, the bad selections are a symptom of a systemic illness, but we're just avoiding talking about the nasty abscess on the arse of the Tahs that needs lancing.
And stop ragging on WJ for being an optimist - the Tahs probably need a few more.
Cue someone with the old chestnut about keeping it in the pigs, because backs are all ... .... .... ... (apologies to Slim for ellipsis abuse).
Sure, the bad selections are a symptom of a systemic illness, but we're just avoiding talking about the nasty abscess on the arse of the Tahs that needs lancing.
And stop ragging on WJ for being an optimist - the Tahs probably need a few more.
I disagree with this completely. I think Bernard Foley could be the future for the Tahs at 10 and a real star in the next couple of years. The speed at which he has become an integral player in the team has been really impressive.
Kane Douglas has had a superb year and is one of the better locks in the country. At 22, he is surely a future Wallaby.
Dave Dennis will almost certainly make his Wallaby debut this season and has had a fantastic year.
Damien Fitzpatrick has been injured for two years so you could say that he is squandered talent, but it's hard to say it's anything other than unlucky.
I'm not really sure what you're suggesting. We should ditch all these players and start again?
I don't get how Turner, Barnes, Polota-Nau, and Kepu can be considered squandered talent. They're all Wallabies at various levels in the pecking order. Aside from Turner they're all very good chances at being in our best 22 so I find it hard to argue that their talent has been wasted.
If the Waratahs did ditch everyone and start again and then we didn't win a competition in the next 5 years, I'm sure you'd be saying that that was a stupid idea as well. I feel that whatever reasoning is provided, you'll always dismiss it. I think you're too jaded to ever think the Waratahs are doing something right.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Thats not what I hear about Vickerman: his body is beyond repair is what i hear.
I am not putting forward a conspiracy theory: frankly i dont think they could muster one.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I complimented him on his optimism - but a cynic is merely a frustrated optimist
Athilnaur
Arch Winning (36)
Link, Fired.
Hickey, fired.
So not happy with that, it's now fire Foley, his boss, his bosses' boss, and their cousins, mailboys and account clerks.
I'm only a quasi Tahs man (born there), but gee you guys stir each other into a froth. The Blues, now theres a team with problems.
Get behind your team, they need you right now.
Ath.
Hickey, fired.
So not happy with that, it's now fire Foley, his boss, his bosses' boss, and their cousins, mailboys and account clerks.
I'm only a quasi Tahs man (born there), but gee you guys stir each other into a froth. The Blues, now theres a team with problems.
Get behind your team, they need you right now.
Ath.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
do you tink that will solve it and, if you dont, what do you think will?
Brumbies Guy
John Solomon (38)
Elsom was almost always going to the Tahs in 2012. He was also likely to move on after that once his contract expired.
Vickerman was highly unlikely to play post RWC.
Mowen knew the above and tried to bargain a 1 year deal knowing that after Elsom and Vickerman departed in 2013 when his own contract was up 1) cash would be freed up, 2) his value (both financial and value to the team) would increase, 3) he could push for a leadership role with 2 of their most experienced/leaders out.
Tahs said no, Brumbies said why wait a year.. and he jumped ship.
Not much to it.
Vickerman was highly unlikely to play post RWC.
Mowen knew the above and tried to bargain a 1 year deal knowing that after Elsom and Vickerman departed in 2013 when his own contract was up 1) cash would be freed up, 2) his value (both financial and value to the team) would increase, 3) he could push for a leadership role with 2 of their most experienced/leaders out.
Tahs said no, Brumbies said why wait a year.. and he jumped ship.
Not much to it.
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