Waratahs 2013

[I like to watch]

Well, the good news for Foley is that the article does not say "he has the full support of the board."
Yet.....

 

[waratahjesus]

Stop blaming the injuries and blame the coach who bought a group on injury prone over-priced has-been's, instead of investing in the development of future talent...

The "injury prone over-priced has-been's" you refer to are Elsom & Vickerman, Vickerman signed last year, his fitness was fine, his currently injury is actually a complication from the treatment of the last one and was unforeseen. Elsom, fine he was injured, but we have Dave Dennis who has developed into an amazing player and have developed Lopeti who is an option, Elsom for mine has been good, he is improving, he got frustrated on Saturday and made some silly mistakes, but I'm yet to see his signing as the great negative people keep trying to make it.

 

[Joe Mac]

The "injury prone over-priced has-been's" you refer to are Elsom & Vickerman, Vickerman signed last year, his fitness was fine, his currently injury is actually a complication from the treatment of the last one and was unforeseen. Elsom, fine he was injured, but we have Dave Dennis who has developed into an amazing player and have developed Lopeti who is an option, Elsom for mine has been good, he is improving, he got frustrated on Saturday and made some silly mistakes, but I'm yet to see his signing as the great negative people keep trying to make it.

Case in point...

 

[Richo]

Foley deserves a second year because its hard to have a big impact in season one. His assistants, however, are a different story. Somehow, player skills are worse this year... And last year was pretty bad, with the brilliance of Drew and Kurtley masking many deficiencies.

 

[Bruce Ross]

wj, there's something that's been troubling me but I've been much too polite to ask. In that photo, are you sitting on Foley's lap?
.

 

[waratahjesus]

wj, there's something that's been troubling me but I've been much too polite to ask. In that photo, are you sitting on Foley's lap?
.

I wish, no, I'm on the fence.

 

[Gnostic]

The "injury prone over-priced has-been's" you refer to are Elsom & Vickerman, Vickerman signed last year, his fitness was fine, his currently injury is actually a complication from the treatment of the last one and was unforeseen. Elsom, fine he was injured, but we have Dave Dennis who has developed into an amazing player and have developed Lopeti who is an option, Elsom for mine has been good, he is improving, he got frustrated on Saturday and made some silly mistakes, but I'm yet to see his signing as the great negative people keep trying to make it.

Rubbish.Vickerman wasnt injury free and he didn't play the games he was supposed to before his guatenteed Wallabies selection. Elsom has been excused his lack I'd speaker for the Brumbies due to injury. Elsom was a foolish signing but I have no doubt the Tahs were told to accept him as when has the (then) Aus. Captain ever been unwanted by any province? Your part is an attempted rewriting of history. They also sign Timani who played in Japan alf has now been playing non stop for over 12 months. How does that help depth and freshness? Now for example where is Peterson? Others of his age are now making a big impact in Oz and OS but all we ever hear is that he isnt ready. Well shit or get off the pot, why isnt he ready? He has been in the super squads longer than Jones, Neville or Pyle.

 

[nathan]

wj, there's something that's been troubling me but I've been much too polite to ask. In that photo, are you sitting on Foley's lap?
.

This is quite possibly the best thing I've read on this forum in maybe 12-18 months.

Well played.

 

[Nusadan]

I wish, no, I'm on the fence.

A double entendre there...!!!!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Rubbish.Vickerman wasnt injury free and he didn't play the games he was supposed to before his guatenteed Wallabies selection. Elsom has been excused his lack I'd speaker for the Brumbies due to injury. Elsom was a foolish signing but I have no doubt the Tahs were told to accept him as when has the (then) Aus. Captain ever been unwanted by any province? Your part is an attempted rewriting of history. They also sign Timani who played in Japan alf has now been playing non stop for over 12 months. How does that help depth and freshness? Now for example where is Peterson? Others of his age are now making a big impact in Oz and OS but all we ever hear is that he isnt ready. Well shit or get off the pot, why isnt he ready? He has been in the super squads longer than Jones, Neville or Pyle.

my mail is quite the opposite: no province wanted him. Foley is a mate.


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[RugbyReg]

I wish, no, I'm on the fence.

For the first time ever I'd suggest.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Well shit or get off the pot,

In these days of indoor toilets it's probably not all that relevant but the phrase with which I'm familiar was "piss or get off the pot". Having an Edgar and then slipping the pot back under the bed wouldn't make for a very restful sleep if you get my drift.
.

 

[waratahjesus]

Rubbish.Vickerman wasnt injury free and he didn't play the games he was supposed to before his guatenteed Wallabies selection. Elsom has been excused his lack I'd speaker for the Brumbies due to injury. Elsom was a foolish signing but I have no doubt the Tahs were told to accept him as when has the (then) Aus. Captain ever been unwanted by any province? Your part is an attempted rewriting of history. They also sign Timani who played in Japan alf has now been playing non stop for over 12 months. How does that help depth and freshness? Now for example where is Peterson? Others of his age are now making a big impact in Oz and OS but all we ever hear is that he isnt ready. Well shit or get off the pot, why isnt he ready? He has been in the super squads longer than Jones, Neville or Pyle.

Sorry, we're am I rewriting history?

Elsom may have been unwanted or not, there isn't any proof of that and no matter how large the tin hat on your head, I'm yet to see proof of it. Anyway for someone unwanted the Tahs playing group just like the wallabies before them respected Elsom enough to vote him captain.

I still fail to see what Elsom has done this year that is bad, unless your saying Dennis needed a rest earlier. It's pretty much just mindless negativity.

Should the Tahs have not re-signed Timani, him and his brother have big futures, the guy was leaving the game, the Tahs have stopped that from happening. If he was at the rebels or force now I would have no doubt you would be bashing the Tahs for not holding onto him.

It's pretty much lose lose for them by your eyes, there are a few people on here that keep making grand accusations but there the same people that fail to apply the same rules to all teams and situations.

 

[waratahjesus]

For the first time ever I'd suggest.

Heart yes, brain no.

 

[Gnostic]

Sorry, we're am I rewriting history?

Elsom may have been unwanted or not, there isn't any proof of that and no matter how large the tin hat on your head, I'm yet to see proof of it. Anyway for someone unwanted the Tahs playing group just like the wallabies before them respected Elsom enough to vote him captain.

I still fail to see what Elsom has done this year that is bad, unless your saying Dennis needed a rest earlier. It's pretty much just mindless negativity.

Should the Tahs have not re-signed Timani, him and his brother have big futures, the guy was leaving the game, the Tahs have stopped that from happening. If he was at the rebels or force now I would have no doubt you would be bashing the Tahs for not holding onto him.

It's pretty much lose lose for them by your eyes, there are a few people on here that keep making grand accusations but there the same people that fail to apply the same rules to all teams and situations.

Tin hat? Grand standing? Dont apply to all teams equally.
Get a grip. Your MINDLESS optimism and unstinting faith isnt realistic, and is the opposite of the radical seeking change. Your position is the zealot incapable of setting the need for change.

Elsom has played 2.5 games out of 11. That was always going to be the case, from prior history. I notice that you drop the Vickerman argument as that was an even weaker position.
As for Timani x 2. I am not convinced of their greathood and in any event with a squad carrying two non playing crocks for at least the first 6 rounds was the original call was it wise to have another position taken by a bloke who was unavailable for the first part of the season and has been non stop for 12 month now?
So management left the tags in a situation where some players like Denis wouldn't get a rest for most of the season because of injuries and lack of early coverage.

 

[waratahjesus]

Tin hat? Grand standing? Dont apply to all teams equally.
Get a grip. Your MINDLESS optimism and unstinting faith isnt realistic, and is the opposite of the radical seeking change. Your position is the zealot incapable of setting the need for change.

Elsom has played 2.5 games out of 11. That was always going to be the case, from prior history. I notice that you drop the Vickerman argument as that was an even weaker position.
As for Timani x 2. I am not convinced of their greathood and in any event with a squad carrying two non playing crocks for at least the first 6 rounds was the original call was it wise to have another position taken by a bloke who was unavailable for the first part of the season and has been non stop for 12 month now?
So management left the tags in a situation where some players like Denis wouldn't get a rest for most of the season because of injuries and lack of early coverage.

Yep, Elsom was injured, the medical staff assessed him and they took a punt. You can argue it kept Dennis without cover, it didn't but you can argue it and I respect that. Other than that in his return I'm yet to see Elsom as a bad buy. He has played pretty well, he didn't have a great game on the weekend but he still showed signs of what he is capable of and the players obviously respect him.

I didn't drop the Vickerman argument, I just have nothing further to ad, his injury had complications, they came after the world cup and medical reports have changed several times. I'm dissapointed his signing hasn't payed off but I don't believe they saw what ha happened as the likely scenario when they assessed him.

You don't like the Timanis, then I invite you to make a call on them. This is one of e problems I have with your negativity. By signing Saleki they kept him in the game, if they didn't sign him he would be lost overseas or to another supeRugby team, if that happened you would be complaining about the Tahs letting him fall through the cracks. The Waratahs can't win in your eyes at the moment , as with a few others on here. The ability to be constructive is being lost in the need to rip into them.

The thing is, we agree on most issues, the only thing we disagree on is that you believe there is a massive culture problem due to KPIs meaning good enough is enough.

I don't have "MINDLESS optimism" I have mentioned several things I don't like at several different occasions, like with Foleys statements, I think you are searching very hard for vindication of your opinion and in doing so your only seeing the things that help you on that path and not assessing everything equally. I don't ask you to agree with me and welcome your difference of opinion as debate at this level will hopefully lead to debate at higher levels and continue to affect change in every area that needs it. I'm sorry if my support upsets you, but every time a whistle blows and a ball is kicked off I prefer to enjoy the game for what it is without carrying baggage that affects my vision.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Sorry, we're am I rewriting history?

Elsom may have been unwanted or not, there isn't any proof of that and no matter how large the tin hat on your head, I'm yet to see proof of it. Anyway for someone unwanted the Tahs playing group just like the wallabies before them respected Elsom enough to vote him captain.

I still fail to see what Elsom has done this year that is bad, unless your saying Dennis needed a rest earlier. It's pretty much just mindless negativity.

Should the Tahs have not re-signed Timani, him and his brother have big futures, the guy was leaving the game, the Tahs have stopped that from happening. If he was at the rebels or force now I would have no doubt you would be bashing the Tahs for not holding onto him.

It's pretty much lose lose for them by your eyes, there are a few people on here that keep making grand accusations but there the same people that fail to apply the same rules to all teams and situations.

One way in which you're rewriting history is to assess elsoms season as if it's irrelevant that a contracted spot was taken up by a crocked player who, on present form, is not better than the bloke they already had (Dennis) or the bloke they let go (Mowen). Elsom has been dead weight on any view until the last 2 weeks and this comp started 3 months ago.


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[Inside Shoulder]

Yep, Elsom was injured, the medical staff assessed him and they took a punt. You can argue it kept Dennis without cover, it didn't but you can argue it and I respect that. Other than that in his return I'm yet to see Elsom as a bad buy. He has played pretty well, he didn't have a great game on the weekend but he still showed signs of what he is capable of and the players obviously respect him.

I didn't drop the Vickerman argument, I just have nothing further to ad, his injury had complications, they came after the world cup and medical reports have changed several times. I'm dissapointed his signing hasn't payed off but I don't believe they saw what ha happened as the likely scenario when they assessed him.

You don't like the Timanis, then I invite you to make a call on them. This is one of e problems I have with your negativity. By signing Saleki they kept him in the game, if they didn't sign him he would be lost overseas or to another supeRugby team, if that happened you would be complaining about the Tahs letting him fall through the cracks. The Waratahs can't win in your eyes at the moment , as with a few others on here. The ability to be constructive is being lost in the need to rip into them.

The thing is, we agree on most issues, the only thing we disagree on is that you believe there is a massive culture problem due to KPIs meaning good enough is enough.

I don't have "MINDLESS optimism" I have mentioned several things I don't like at several different occasions, like with Foleys statements, I think you are searching very hard for vindication of your opinion and in doing so your only seeing the things that help you on that path and not assessing everything equally. I don't ask you to agree with me and welcome your difference of opinion as debate at this level will hopefully lead to debate at higher levels and continue to affect change in every area that needs it. I'm sorry if my support upsets you, but every time a whistle blows and a ball is kicked off I prefer to enjoy the game for what it is without carrying baggage that affects my vision.

I wrote weeks ago that vickerman is gooooorn. Finished - no suggestion he is returning anytime soon.
Prediction: he will announce his retirement in the new financial year.
So that's 2 absolutely rat shit decisions (even if my predictions wrong) from the medical staff one of which "justified" an absolutely rat shit decision (as I wrote at the time) to let the future (in favour of the heavily crocked past) go to Canberra where he has led on the field (not part of the captains job description in tah land) to the top of the conference.
A more damning collection of realities, laid at the feet of management, in 1 season is hard to imagine.


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[Dave Beat]

Foley deserves a second year because its hard to have a big impact in season one. His assistants, however, are a different story. Somehow, player skills are worse this year... And last year was pretty bad, with the brilliance of Drew and Kurtley masking many deficiencies.

How many years has JW been involved in the Brumbies, that'll own Aust rugby?
Who has been the assistant at the Waratahs for the last couple of years?

It is not just the coach, the players, the assistane, it is the operation and over all culture. We have the strongest club comp in Australia, the perefect nursery to grome a winning team - BUT WE CANT.

 

[mjw]

We have the strongest club comp in Australia, the perefect nursery to grome a winning team - BUT WE CANT.

You argue like Tahs have sole choice from this nursery. Argue with the facts.